# I swore I would never do this... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 29, 2000, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042 "2000-09-29T18:58:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/1 "2000-09-29T18:58:34Z")
…but I _have_ to. You see, I heard this riddle… No! WAIT! Come back! You see, I heard this riddle, and then I heard the answer. And I don’t believe it. I don’t think that the answer is really the answer. So, can you help me? Here it is: \*My wife and I were sitting at the kitchen table the other day, when she notices a deck of cards. It was from the night before, when I was teaching the boys how to play poker – trying to win back some of the money they keep borrowing from me. She says, “I’d like to learn how to play poker. Will you teach me?” So, I say, “Sure.” I explain to her the ranking of the hands, how a royal flush is the best hand… going all the way down to the lowly deuce-and the lowest hand one could have, which is no pairs. I’ve got all the cards face up on the table and she says, "Let’s play a game. You pick five cards and I’ll pick five cards, and let’s see who has the best hand. I say, “That’s pretty stupid. I’m going to pick a royal flush and you’re going to pick a royal flush, and we’re going to be tied.” “Let’s play this way,” she says, “After you pick your cards, and after I pick mine, you can throw away as many cards you want, up to and including five. And you can replace them all or replace any number of them you like. I’ll go first, and I’ll beat you.” My wife picks five cards… and she beats me!\* What hand did she draw? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/2 "2000-09-29T19:05:24Z")
I don’t know the answer, sdimbert, but looking at the title of the thread, I’d say your Hataras NEdarim this morning came in quite handy, eh? ;j K’Siva Vachasima Tova…to you and to all the rest of you dopers out there. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/3 "2000-09-29T19:23:16Z")
If she can draw her cards first, what is stopping her from taking the RF in spades? ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/4 "2000-09-29T19:25:43Z")
You apparently also get the puzzler from Click and Clack too. Don’t worry, I won’t give away the solution. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/5 "2000-09-29T19:26:31Z")
**Rhythmdvl** , I had the same thought. But, if she does, my RF in hearts, diamonds or clubs will tie. The idea that spades is a superior suit doesn’t matter in Poker, only in bridge. **Chaim** , I guess you’re right! BTW, K’siva Tova backatcya. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/6 "2000-09-29T19:29:29Z")
1. she picked up the spade royal flush and then argued with you about suit rankings determining the winner until you finally conceded. 2. She literally beat you until you gave up. 3. There was a joker and she picked 5 aces as her hand. 4. Probably the answer though it’s stupid if it’s true: The way she worded the game, you pick your cards, then she picks hers and THEN you get to replace. But since she goes first, the only thing you have in front of you is an empty hand. So she wins by default. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/7 "2000-09-29T19:30:44Z")
**Padeye** , you can go ahead and reveal the answer if you want… I already know it; I just don’t _understand_ it. ---
**Author:** ![Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/8 "2000-09-29T19:32:23Z")
She picked up all four aces. Then replaced four cards to make a royal flush. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/9 "2000-09-29T19:36:26Z")
I think **Enderw23** ’s first guess is better than the “real” answer. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/10 "2000-09-29T19:38:41Z")
**Gazoo** : OK, now we’re getting somewhere. The solution I heard was the four tens, but both ideas work the same way. What you’re suggesting is: [list=1] [li]SHE: A,A,A,A,X (Four of a kind)[/li][li] ME: 9, 10, J, Q, K (Straight Flush - I’m winning)[/li][li]SHE: 10, J, Q, K A (Royal Flush - She’s winning[/li][/list=1] But, now that she has dropped the other 3 Aces, why can’t I pick one up, make my hand into a Royal Flush, and tie? That’s my problem! That’s why I don’t understand the “answer.” ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/11 "2000-09-29T19:40:01Z")
IIRC C&C used tens which is faulty but Gazoo is right. Take all the aces and there is no way he can make a royal flush, at best a king high straight flush. Doesn’t matter if he discards for the four cowboys or a king high straight flush, she can always win. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/12 "2000-09-29T19:40:21Z")
How about this: You’re playing with wild cards, and she draws 5 of a kind??? ---
**Author:** ![Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/13 "2000-09-29T19:40:45Z")
Let me add to my guess: She picks four aces and another card. He picks a straight flush to king. She discards three aces and the other card, draws the needed cards to have a straight flush to the ace. He can’t beat it. [This assumes he can’t draw the second time around from her discards.] ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/14 "2000-09-29T19:43:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gazoo \* > \*\*[This assumes he can’t draw the second time around from her discards.] \*\* _That’s_ the clincher. Do you think that the rules are intended to be that whoever goes first gets 2 draws while the opponent gets only one? If so, what’s the big deal? I hope that that isn’t the “answer”… I was hoping for something a bit more subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Nurlman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Nurlman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nurlman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/15 "2000-09-29T19:44:59Z")
Like so many riddles, you’ve stumbled onto a definitional problem. > [@](#): > > _she says, “After you pick your cards, and after I pick mine, you can throw away as many cards you want, up to and including five. And **you can replace them all or replace any number of them you like.** I’ll go first, and I’ll beat you.”_ In draw poker, you draw cards from the deck, not from the discarded cards of the other players. Presumably, the creator of the riddle presumed that the “replacing” would be done according to traditional poker principles, and under that definition, the answer you got is correct. But anyone can see that this game-- in which you draw cards from a face up deck-- isn’t like poker from the get-go. So it is not necessarily intuitive that the replacing takes place only from the unpicked cards, hence your confusion. Marilyn Vos Savant pulls this kind of crap all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/16 "2000-09-29T19:45:12Z")
Hmmm, now what he _should_ do is take 4 kings and another card. Then the onus is on her. If she stays pat, he can get a SF to the king. If she draws, the best she can do is get a SF to the queen. He can then draw and get his SF the king and beat her. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/17 "2000-09-29T19:48:30Z")
So the order is, wife picks, then husband picks. Then the husband gets to throw away cards and pick new ones? If that’s the case, then the husband is a bit of a dim bulb for losing. A straight flush beats four of a kind. If the wife picks four aces, the husband picks K-Q-J-10-9 and refuses to throw any away. He wins. If the wife picks A-K-Q-J-10 in any suit, husband picks A-K-Q-J-10 in another suit for a tied hand. Now, if the wife also gets to throw away cards, then she can certainly win. But the OP doesn’t say that both husband and wife get to toss out cards. Wife’s winning strategy in that situation is to pick A-A-A-A and another random card. Husband chooses K-Q-J-10-9 and doesn’t trade. Wife tosses four cards away, keeping the ace of a suit not chosen by husband, then picks K-Q-J-10 in that suit for the high straight flush and the win. But then the puzzle becomes, “We both get to choose and discard cards, and I go first.” Not too amazing that she would win, given the advantage of going first. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/18 "2000-09-29T19:48:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gazoo \* > \*\*Hmmm, now what he _should_ do is take 4 kings and another card. Then the onus is on her. If she stays pat, he can get a SF to the king. If she draws, the best she can do is get a SF to the queen. He can then draw and get his SF the king and beat her. \*\* This will work only if the “other card” he takes is an Ace… otherwise she can beat him with 2 pair… Aces and Aces. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/19 "2000-09-29T19:49:14Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by sdimbert \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Do you think that the rules are intended to be that whoever goes first gets 2 draws while the opponent gets only one? > \*\* The opponent still gets to draw twice, he just can’t use her _discards_ as part of his second draw. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042/20 "2000-09-29T19:52:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*\*sdimbert \*\* > I’ll go first, and I’ll beat you. > > My wife picks five cards… and she beats me! She beats you! That’s just awful. She doesn’t strike me as a violent person. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swore-i-would-never-do-this/35042.md?page=2)