# I take umbrage with both this warning and the mod attitude **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138 "2012-04-18T08:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/61 "2012-04-20T02:22:23Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I’ve lost track…someone help me out…who currently has the umbrage? > mmm That would be me. And I’m on vacation tomorrow. I’ll can return it on Monday. -D/a ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/62 "2012-04-20T03:51:19Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > This sharp distinction seems to get blurrier by the moment. Give your glasses a clean. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/63 "2012-04-20T11:40:41Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The “report post” is there for a reason. If you object to the remarks of another poster, report the post and let the moderators deal with it. It’s never appropriate to take matters into your own hands by responding with an insult when you feel offended. FWIW, My experiences doing this are that A) Nothing happens and B) There’s almost never get any acknowledgement the report’s even been received. I’m sure that’s not the case, but it’s certainly my perception. > [@](#): > > In deciding whether to issue a note vs. a warning, I took several factors into account. First, the insult was blatant, serious, and personal. Saying someone is “being a dick” is calling them a dick; it’s not something directed at their post but at them personally. Second, you are a long term poster who should be fully aware of the rules of GQ, and of the procedures for reporting a post. Third, as indicated above, your response was essentially unprovoked and way over the top with regard to anything that had previously gone on in the thread. Having had a few days to think about it, I think the disconnect here is different views on the strength of the word “dick” as an insult (or even its status as one). IME, it’s extremely mild, on par with “Jerk” (which I’ve almost never heard anyone in this country actually use in everyday conversation). Bear in mind I live in a country where it’s legally OK to use the word “Bugger” to advertise cars and say “Fuck” on free-to-air TV. Saying that someone is “being a dick” is, to me, a different kettle of fish to saying someone _is_ a dick. It’s a comment on someone’s actions and not their character. Then again, I also realise its part of my job to make distinctions on this sort of thing, and clearly the community standards in the US differ from those in my professional experience here. I appreciate the clarification and the apology. For my part, I shall apologise for my uncharacteristic frustrated outburst. FTR, I wasn’t so much feeling that the poster in question was specifically being condescending to me alone, but rather that replying to numerous people with a single word response in the negatory _without elaborating further_ was, to put it mildly, not engaging in a constructive debate on the subject. A simple “It’s a bit hard for them be on the offensive when they’ve won, old chap ;)” for example would have been (IMHO) an apt way of making the same point the poster claimed to be making, without coming across as combatitively pedantic or abrasive/ > [@](#): > > Next time you get annoyed with someone, I would really appreciate it if you would report the post and not put me in the position of having to issue you a warning. I’ll keep that in mind. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/64 "2012-04-20T12:15:29Z")
\*♫Where has all the umbrage gone? Long time passing Where has all the umbrage gone? Long time ago Where has all the umbrage gone? Martini took it, everyone…♫\* ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/65 "2012-04-20T16:00:19Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > FWIW, My experiences doing this are that A) Nothing happens and B) There’s almost never get any acknowledgement the report’s even been received. I’m sure that’s not the case, but it’s certainly my perception. All I can address is post reports in GQ, since those are the only ones I see. You’ve never made a post report of a personal insult against yourself or another poster that I can find. I see one report of insults against non-board members, but those are not against the rules. It is not my practice in general to provide explanations of why I have chosen not to take action on a particular post report, mostly because if I did so in every case it would be very time consuming. I will respond if someone is so concerned about a particular post that they make more than one report, or contact me by PM about it. > [@](#): > > Having had a few days to think about it, I think the disconnect here is different views on the strength of the word “dick” as an insult (or even its status as one). > > IME, it’s extremely mild, on par with “Jerk” (which I’ve almost never heard anyone in this country actually use in everyday conversation). Bear in mind I live in a country where it’s legally OK to use the word “Bugger” to advertise cars and say “Fuck” on free-to-air TV. I think most people in the US consider “dick” to be a pretty serious insult. > [@](#): > > Saying that someone is “being a dick” is, to me, a different kettle of fish to saying someone _is_ a dick. It’s a comment on someone’s actions and not their character. Then again, I also realise its part of my job to make distinctions on this sort of thing, and clearly the community standards in the US differ from those in my professional experience here. I would say that if you are “being a dick,” you are at least temporarily a dick. This is generally the standard we apply. Saying somebody is being a dick is insulting personally. > [@](#): > > I appreciate the clarification and the apology. For my part, I shall apologise for my uncharacteristic frustrated outburst. Thank you. I hope that you can control your annoyance with the occasional snarkiness and discourtesy of some other posters and continue to post. Remember, it’s only a message board. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/66 "2012-04-20T17:51:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I think most people in the US consider “dick” to be a pretty serious insult. I put “dick” to be about the same level as “bastard”, “asshole”, and “bitch”. But what does that really mean? I mean, the tone of the conversation can make any of those something from a playful jibe among friends to fighting words. The point is, on this board, there is no “that’s not a strong insult”. It’s a comment about the person. I grant there’s a fuzziness over the construction “being a \_\_\_” or “acting like a \_\_\_” that is a different condition than “is a \_\_\_”. The former two can be interpreted along the lines of “bahaving like a dick”, whereas the latter implies that “dick” is an inherent part of the person’s nature. This fuzziness is what gets up situations like the “lying liars are lying” conundrum in GD. > [@Hbns](#): > > I’m kinda new here. So let me get this straight. All would have been fine if **Martini** instead had said: > > ‘It’s people like you, making _ **dickish posts** _ for no reason, that remind_ **s** _ me why I took an extended break from this place.’ Technically, that phrasing passes the “insult the post, not the poster” rule. However, that thread is in General Questions, which has a very strict line on personal insults and commentary. I feel that that remark would probably have drawn a mod note. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/67 "2012-04-21T00:56:53Z")
I think “umbrage” is against the rules. Clearly a thinly veiled reference to “under bridge”, hence an accusation of trolling. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/68 "2012-04-21T01:31:28Z")
i haven’t seen ‘umbrage’ used in like forever and now twice in succession i hear it on _Craig Ferguson_ and here within a space of a week(?) between each other, with its use mocked in exactly the same manner. we need a stronger word than ‘coincidence’. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/69 "2012-04-21T04:31:30Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > we need a stronger word than ‘coincidence’. Humbrage? (umbrage + homage) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/70 "2012-04-21T06:31:24Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I think most people in the US consider “dick” to be a pretty serious insult. Martini is trying to play the “in Australia it’s different” card but \*this \*Australian thinks dick is well over the line and would be very surprised if any Australian who wasn’t trying to dig themselves out of a hole would say any different. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/71 "2012-04-21T07:38:51Z")
I like **Martini Enfield** , think he’s a great poster who should get about a dozen informal warnings before any mod even considers whipping out the “suspension” stick, think the Mods enjoy whipping out their sticks WAY too often, but my opinions don’t count much around here because I’ve behaved like a dick too much. When I offer my opinions about moderating, they usually work contrary to what I want because the Mods consider the source, so: BAN **Martini Enfield**!!! NOW!!! ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/72 "2012-04-21T08:20:37Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Martini is trying to play the “in Australia it’s different” card but \*this \*Australian thinks dick is well over the line and would be very surprised if any Australian who wasn’t trying to dig themselves out of a hole would say any different. With the greatest respect, I often wonder if you and I are actually living in slightly different, alternate universes and have somehow stumbled upon the SDMB as a communication gateway between the two. 😛 I can’t remember the last time you posted about your experiences on something in this country and I went “That sounds right” or “I agree with the substance of this based on my experience” and I’m pretty sure the same applies vice-versa at your end. Just because you appear to think my extrapolated experiences and views on the life and culture of this country are somehow “incorrect” because they differ from your own, that doesn’t automatically make it so. The same is true with the roles switched as well, obviously. There’s no reason we can’t _both_ be right (or equally wrong, for that matter) and coming at something from totally different reference points, so to speak. I’d appreciate the courtesy from you of at least acknowledging that your views and opinions are no more definitive than mine, and I’ll be happy to grant the same courtesy in return. As someone far more eloquent in such matters once said: > [@Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski](#): > > “Well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/73 "2012-04-21T08:21:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think “umbrage” is against the rules. Clearly a thinly veiled reference to “under bridge”, hence an accusation of trolling. I take it much amiss that exception is taken to umbrage. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/74 "2012-04-21T08:58:54Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Martini is trying to play the “in Australia it’s different” card but \*this \*Australian thinks dick is well over the line and would be very surprised if any Australian who wasn’t trying to dig themselves out of a hole would say any different. Well I’m an Aussie in no hole and I think dick is a very mild insult indeed. A while ago at work someone accused me of “just being a dick” for remaining obstinate about a minor difference of opinion. I didn’t take umbrage and it turned out that he was right - I just wanted to be right. I think under those circumstances it is a fairly common response, at least among guys. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/75 "2012-04-21T10:55:27Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Well I’m an Aussie in no hole and I think dick is a very mild insult indeed. A while ago at work someone accused me of “just being a dick” for remaining obstinate about a minor difference of opinion. I didn’t take umbrage and it turned out that he was right - I just wanted to be right. I think under those circumstances it is a fairly common response, at least among guys. I’m not commenting on whether it’s appropriate or not, but at the company that I work at, in the Southeastern US, that would almost be an insta-fire. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/76 "2012-04-21T12:20:37Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’d appreciate the courtesy from you of at least acknowledging that your views and opinions are no more definitive than mine I don’t read any such implication in his comments that would require such a disclaimer. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/77 "2012-04-21T14:23:55Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > . . . > > I grant there’s a fuzziness over the construction “being a \_\_\_” or “acting like a \_\_\_” that is a different condition than “is a \_\_\_”. The former two can be interpreted along the lines of “bahaving like a dick”, whereas the latter implies that “dick” is an inherent part of the person’s nature. This fuzziness is what gets up situations like the “lying liars are lying” conundrum in GD. I don’t see that. _Being_, or _acting like_ a dick sufficiently describes the person as a dick. The only distinction I see is that the person’s dickhood might be transient. ---
**Author:** ![Molotok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Molotok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molotok)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/78 "2012-04-21T14:55:12Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I don’t see that. _Being_, or _acting like_ a dick sufficiently describes the person as a dick. The only distinction I see is that the person’s dickhood might be transient. That’s why I post here… to learn them fancy words like “dickhood” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/79 "2012-04-21T15:01:22Z")
I’ll try this trick the next time I get in an argument with my wife. I will say that her words bear the indicia of bitchiness and see if she appreciates the distinction between that and calling her a bitch. I’ll let you know how that turns out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138/80 "2012-04-21T15:20:35Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I don’t see that. _Being_, or _acting like_ a dick sufficiently describes the person as a dick. The only distinction I see is that the person’s dickhood might be transient. It seems to me that the difference between being a dick and acting like a dick is exactly the same as the allegedly significant difference between insulting the poster rather than the post. Saying you are acting like a dick is saying you made a dickish post, and you should be more careful. Saying you ARE a dick is saying that your dickish post is no more than could be expected from a dick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-take-umbrage-with-both-this-warning-and-the-mod-attitude/619138.md?page=5)