# I tend to monologue and I want to learn the concise ways of efficient talkers **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 9, 2024, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669 "2024-06-09T13:34:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/21 "2024-06-10T21:25:35Z")
Zoom is really challenging, because the latency & diminished facial/body language makes it harder for the listener to break into the conversation. If someone’s off on a tangent, you literally have to talk over them for 5 seconds to indicate you’re taking the baton for a minute. So a lot of people don’t do it, they’ll just let you monologue. What I do is check for feedback like “does that make sense”, or “so far so good?”, just to give them a chance to break in. Though you also need to be careful with that, because this can sound like “do you understand, are you keeping up, you big slow dummy”. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/22 "2024-06-10T21:31:12Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > There was some well-known person who apologized for writing a long letter because he didn’t have time to write a longer one. That was Mark Twain, who apologized for writing a long letter, because he didn’t have time to write a shorter one. Editing is everything. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/23 "2024-06-10T21:34:23Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > There was some well-known person who apologized for writing a long letter because he didn’t have time to write a longer one. I heard one in the opposite direction. I’ll probably get all the details wrong, but it was something that started with a speaker asked how much time he needed to prepare to make a 15 minute speech on a particular topic. Two weeks was the answer. How about a 30 minute speech? 3 days. How about an hour speech? Oh, I can do that right now. It’s hard to make your point concisely, especially on a topic you’re expert on. Easy to go on for hours. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/24 "2024-06-10T22:26:38Z")
Start with something mundane and trivial to start the communication process. If all that comes to mind is the weather, then comment on the weather. Listen to the response. Smile knowingly or in commiseration, but smile. Ask questions. Don’t get technical right away. If it suits the circumstances I ask where they live, or where they are from. If they’re local ask what town they’re from. Ask where they went to school. When they tell you try to say something about it, even if it’s how you’ve never been there. If you know something bring that up. Don’t dwell on this part too long. Move on from this point. Bring up the subject you’re talking about. Ask them something general about the subject. Use that response to slide a little deeper into the subject, but do it by asking questions. “Do you think we need to do something about the latest figures?”. “Is this a problem for you?” “Do you have some plan to proceed”. Maybe you’re just talking movies. Ask “Did you see \_\_\_\_?” Did you like \_\_\_\_\_ in \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_? The key is asking questions and pretending to be interested in the answers. If you’re lucky you might actually be interested. Now start talking. If they have little to add to the conversation ask more questions. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/25 "2024-06-10T22:29:31Z")
> [@XOldiesJock](#): > > The “elevator speech.” During my time in media sales, a lot of business people could not do that. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > It’s called an elevator pitch. That’s the one! > [@Velocity](#): > > the longer I wrote or spoke, the less my audience was listening. Precisely! > [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > People have a limited attention span, as well as a limited retention span. Say what you need to say and stop talking. If they want to know more, they’ll ask. It’s sad how correct you are 😃 > [@Shortname](#): > > Are you answering specific questions? Do the other participants clearly communicate what they need? If you have specific questions you can give specific answers. Do you ask them if they want the short version or the long version? If you don’t have clarity on what problem they need you to solve, your answers will be all encompassing, vague, or groping. Better questions will allow you to give better answers. What do AI programs say when you ask them for help? Yes. No. No. I should definitely asked them if they want the short or long version. Asking more questions is usually good. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > You sound so very much like my husband. > > One of the reasons it’s so vexing is I have the opposite communication style. In person, I’m known for being friendly but blunt. Direct. Not mincing words. (Not rude. Just frank.) I didn’t even notice this about myself until people started talking about it like it’s an admirable trait. > > At work, I only say what I think needs to be said. Sure I socialize nicely, but in my meetings, we stick to the point. What are the objectives of this meeting? Does what I’m about to say directly pertain to the purpose of this meeting? Are we all leaving on the same page about what needs to be done next? That’s all I care about. And deep down, that’s all my coworkers care about, too. Nobody wants to be in a meeting. > > You have to think about it from the perspective of the person you’re talking to. When there’s a lot of extraneous detail, however fascinating it may be to you, the average human brain is not capable of sorting through all that to make an instant assessment of which parts are important. There are also people like me who have the attention span of a gnat. The more important something is to hear, the more likely I’m going to be accidentally thinking about something else. A rather impressive amount of wisdom here. It all checks out to me. > [@](#): > > Listen really hard for the message, and respond in accordance with the message, not just the part that sets you off. _Listen really hard for the message, and respond in accordance with the message_ Yeah I should probably do that, shouldn’t I? > [@](#): > > Finally, consider whether you might have some neurodiversity as a factor here. I have ADHD, my son is autistic, and I think my husband probably has some autistic traits. Learning about the kinds of challenges that come up with those disorders may point you to some tips and tricks used by people with problems of impulse control and less than stellar social insight. I have ADHD too and I have been told by a couple SOs that I might be borderline autistic before so yours was the final curiosity straw: I just took [this adult autism test quiz](https://www.clinical-partners.co.uk/for-adults/autism-and-aspergers/adult-autism-test) to find out. Turns out autistic traits are slightly above the population average at 13/30 . So you kinda nailed it. I’m impressed and/or amused. > [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Before actually speaking, take a deep breath and a little time to engage the brain to decide the key point(s) you want to get across. [You got me!](https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExc2p3NXBzZzJpODJ0cHppbnY5MTlycDRmaWUxcHh5MjE1dHl0MGw4bCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/y6Inkaz7omxAk/giphy.webp) When I read that my first thought was: Are you mad? Who can: #1 do that fast enough AND #2 hold this objective in their head while talking at the same time and self-edit live?? It feels impossible to me. My second thought was that I know other humans can do it because I’ve seen it so in theory, as a human, maybe I could learn. It does feel impossible to be so quick-witted to me though. > [@](#): > > Limit the point(s) to what people need for [whatever you’re explaining] to be useful to them (assuming you’ve also already found out what they’re hoping to learn from you). I have been trying to do this lately. And sometimes I have succeeded 🙂 . . Limit the scope of my answer. > [@](#): > > If you’re discussing, rather than explaining and disagree with what your interlocutor’s just said, phrase it as a question, even as short as “How, exactly?” That should also buy you a bit of time. Socratic-y and active listening-y. I like it! ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/26 "2024-06-10T22:42:09Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > That was Mark Twain, who apologized for writing a long letter, because he didn’t have time to write a shorter one. I believe it was Pascal though I’ve also heard similar things attributed to Anatole France and Cicero. Very common problem to have. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/27 "2024-06-10T23:27:58Z")
> [@Gozu](#): > > > [@PatrickLondon](#): > > > > Before actually speaking, take a deep breath and a little time to engage the brain to decide the key point(s) you want to get across. > > [You got me!](https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExc2p3NXBzZzJpODJ0cHppbnY5MTlycDRmaWUxcHh5MjE1dHl0MGw4bCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/y6Inkaz7omxAk/giphy.webp) > > When I read that my first thought was: Are you mad? Who can: > > #1 do that fast enough AND > > #2 hold this objective in their head while talking at the same time and self-edit live?? > > It feels impossible to me. What feels impossible to me is talking _without_ first deciding the key point(s) I want to get across (or talking when I don’t _have_ key points to get across). It seems to me that [oversimplification] there are two kinds of people: (1) people who can’t talk (or write) without first thinking about what to say and how to say it, and (2) people who can’t think without talking (or writing) to see what they have to say. [/oversimplification] I’m the first kind of person, and I have difficulty talking _enough_, especially in situations like real-time conversation. If you’re the second kind of person, your brain works differently from mine, and you’d be better off getting advice from people whose brains work similarly to yours and who have figured out how to deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/28 "2024-06-11T00:10:29Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I believe it was Pascal though I’ve also heard similar things attributed to Anatole France and Cicero. But it was Abe Lincoln who first posted it on the Internet, after he translated it from DaVinci. ---
**Author:** ![vbob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vbob/32/4439_2.png) [@vbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vbob)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/29 "2024-06-11T00:17:54Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > If they want to know more, they’ll ask. Except, of course, when they don’t know they NEED to know more. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/30 "2024-06-11T00:24:05Z")
Good point. Perhaps I need to be patient and wait for them to ask the question, or if they don’t ask, perhaps let them make their mistakes first and THEN ask the question later. We do learn most from our mistakes afterall. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/31 "2024-06-11T00:50:18Z")
> [@Gozu](#): > > We do learn most from our mistakes afterall. speak for yourself ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/32 "2024-06-11T02:01:30Z")
> [@Gozu](#): > > Perhaps I need to be patient and wait for them to ask the question, or if they don’t ask, perhaps let them make their mistakes first and THEN ask the question later. You can steer them in the right direction by asking them questions, rather than telling them. “We haven’t really touched on the the redundancy interface. Tell me, do you prefer your backups to be server-based or cloud-based?” It strikes me that although neither the OP and I are in sales, we need to employ a lot of sales techniques to draw out the client, discern their needs, and make them comfortable with our product/service. Are you the leader on these Zoom calls, or just one of the participants? ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/33 "2024-06-11T04:08:20Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > > > I believe it was Pascal though I’ve also heard similar things attributed to Anatole France and Cicero. > > But it was Abe Lincoln who first posted it on the Internet, after he translated it from DaVinci. I hate to be a pedant but it was still called the Intelegraph back then, almost identical to twitter today, except more expensive. > [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > > [@Gozu](#): > > > > Perhaps I need to be patient and wait for them to ask the question, or if they don’t ask, perhaps let them make their mistakes first and THEN ask the question later. > > You can steer them in the right direction by asking them questions, rather than telling them. “We haven’t really touched on the the redundancy interface. Tell me, do you prefer your backups to be server-based or cloud-based?” > > It strikes me that although neither the OP and I are in sales, we need to employ a lot of sales techniques to draw out the client, discern their needs, and make them comfortable with our product/service. > > Are you the leader on these Zoom calls, or just one of the participants? I’d say it’s 50/50. Sometimes, things are as they should be, with customers really taking ownership and doing their homework and listening to feedback most of the time. They talk to me early enough to vet their ideas before potentially going down a less efficient road or reinventing a wheel. It’s a beautiful thing and I enjoy my job in those moments. Just as often, or perhaps more often, I find that the customer leadership hired the lowest bidding company to handle their Data Science/Machine Learning OPS. And how can that company afford such a low bid? By assigning the juniorest of juniors to accounts and seeing if they can get away with it. I lecture more in those cases after I ask questions and no one knows about a topic. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/34 "2024-06-11T16:11:49Z")
One thing you might try is to get everyone to agree on a clear objective for the call/meeting. Even the lowest junior who got stuck with being your contact doesn’t want to be seen as wasting the company’s money on endless charges from consultants. Example - Why are we meeting? a) We have an immediate problem which requires your attention b) We are considering something and would like your input c) We have a vague sense of unease because competitor X is doing something. d) We don’t know but the contract says we have a weekly conference call. Obviously a and b make for a focused meeting, although with b you might want to do additional research and get back to them later. Likewise, c requires some additional digging on your part. And b and c may solve your inner need to lecture, if you can’t boil it down to bullet points. As for d, do the check in, ask if there’s anything that’s been on their minds, set a time for the next call and get off ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/35 "2024-06-15T16:36:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Zoom is really challenging, because the latency & diminished facial/body language makes it harder for the listener to break into the conversation. If someone’s off on a tangent, you literally have to talk over them for 5 seconds to indicate you’re taking the baton for a minute. So a lot of people don’t do it, they’ll just let you monologue. > … I have found systems like Zoom or Teams (we use the latter in our company) _better_ suited to interject something that in-person communication, though, because you can just send the speaker a chat message e.g. _Re X-project_ [that speaker expounds on at length] _- customer sent mail 2 minutes ago - project cancelled_. Or you can raise a yellow hand in your window if you do not want to immediately cut off the stream. I am very loth to interrupt people speaking - make that totally unwilling to interrupt people - but the group chat is an ideal tool for that. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/36 "2024-06-15T17:35:05Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Zoom is really challenging, because the latency & diminished facial/body language makes it harder for the listener to break into the conversation. If someone’s off on a tangent, you literally have to talk over them for 5 seconds to indicate you’re taking the baton for a minute. So a lot of people don’t do it, they’ll just let you monologue. > > What I do is check for feedback like “does that make sense” Actually, “does that make sense” is my go to. I feel the subtext is a humble “did I do a good job explaining?” vs a negative “are you quick enough to understand me?”. And indeed I suspect that most people don’t want to hurt my feelings because it is rare for someone to say “Actually, that didn’t make sense to me”. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/37 "2024-06-15T19:36:13Z")
Props to the OP for self-awareness. I suspect they are not nearly among the worst bores as the bad ones are totally unaware that they are. They think they are good speakers because they can produce an uninterrupted stream of words. I _hope_ I do not drone on myself, in fact I am the sort of person who when my wife notes that I have not said ‘I love you’ lately, thinks (but in the interest of self-preservation, does not say): _I have already said that 14 years ago, and there has been no change since._ Personally I very much suffer in the company of long-winded people. Two notes that may or may not apply: 1. It may help to put oneself in the other party’s shoes. **For the other party the conversation they are having with me may well be chore #187 out of 500 to be done today, it is already early afternoon, and they may already yearn for, and despair in reaching in time, action items #499 (lights out) and #500 (turn on their side).** 2. Avoid _false exits_ (i.e. giving the vocal signs of finishing your turn, the other party already drawing breath to respond, but then continuing to talk). That is something that drives me up the wall. Especially with questions. After you have got to the question mark, shut up and let the other person answer FFS. > [@Gozu](#): > > I have noticed, especially watching movies, that I am jealous of characters who convey their point as concisely as humanly possible, while retaining all relevant information, optimized for dialogue, not written text, perhaps at the cost of some minor grammar rules or conventions I am both jealous of those characters, and of the characters that converse with them. As noted by @Roderick_Femm above, such dialogue does not occur in reality. More’s the pity. **I enjoy talking with people who state one idea, clearly, then shut up and let it be the others’ turn.** Unfortunately verbosity and unstructured speech trains the interlocutor to like behaviour: If people notice that once they have finished their turn they will not get it back for a long time, the lesson learned will be that they need to hold on to their turn as long as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669/38 "2024-06-15T19:58:15Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > People have a limited attention span, as well as a limited retention span. Say what you need to say and stop talking. If they want to know more, they’ll ask. This, especially the “and stop talking” part. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tend-to-monologue-and-i-want-to-learn-the-concise-ways-of-efficient-talkers/1002669.md?page=1)