I didn’t say it was a necessary condition, I said it was an extant condition. Sure, you could create a superhero setting that followed real-life physical and social laws more closely. But neither DC nor Marvel have done that. Based on what happens in the comics, the laws of physics Batman’s world are clearly different from the laws of physics in the real world. Likewise, based on what happens in the comics, the criminal justice code in Batman’s USA are clearly different from the criminal justice code in the real USA. Clearly, in Batman’s America, the legal code makes allowances from costumed vigilantism. Batman isn’t a criminal, because in the stories in which he appears, his actions are usually not considered criminal by the relevant authorities.
Now, in the real world, you probably couldn’t have a legal system anything like what’s depicted in a Batman comic. Society would fall apart. But within the fiction of the comic, that system works. Similarly, you probably couldn’t have a system of physics that ignored the law of conservation of matter. The universe would fall apart. But, again, within the fiction of the comic, the system works.
That’s my point. Batman isn’t a lawless fictional hero. He’s a fictional hero that follows the laws of his society pretty closely - but those laws just happen to have some major functional differences from the laws we have in real life.
The discussion is about using Batman as a symbol of our real country. With that context, our real system of law, justice, and morality has to be applied. In that context, he is a criminal, and someone who doesn’t respect people’s civil and human rights.
This is just quibbling. But even as a reader of this fictionally constructed world, in which such behavior is legal, I can still judge it—as a reader—to be immoral behavior. What if I created a fictional world in which subjugation or genocide of people based on skin color, religion, sexual orientation, etc., was legal and admired? I couldn’t hold up a character in that world as a symbol of our country in real life without implying that those things are things our country stands for.
The Adam West Batman? He was very much about the idea that criminals could be rehabilitated and he used his Wayne Foundation to help numerous ex-cons reenter society.
I’m not really addressing the concept of “Batman as national symbol,” because that’s pretty clearly a joke concept, and not something that needs to be seriously considered. I’m addressing the concept that Batman, as a fictional character, is breaking the law. Generally speaking, that’s not how the character is portrayed in the vast majority of his appearances across multiple media.
Think of the good intentions as a road bed as filled with gravel, which promotes good drainage, so it’s good that it’s there. But if you stop your road construction there, it’s not a very effective pavement.
Now think of actions which fulfill the good intentions as a layer of surface material. That’s the road to Heaven.
The actual streets in Heaven, of course are paved with Gold.
I don’t know how to measure the weight of how often Batman is depicted as acting within the legal constraints of his world and how often he’s depicted as violating them and how often it’s unclear whether he is or he isn’t, but that’s really minutiae. If we’re having a discussion regarding the morals and ethics of Batman, our real life values are relevant. And from that perspective I feel justified in considering him a lawless vigilante and someone I wouldn’t want real people to treat as a model for behavior.
Marvel’s Daredevil just had a lovely story where Matt Murdock took a case to the U.S. Supreme Court, seeking a ruling to permit “masked heroes” to testify in court in their “alter ego” identity.
Now, the story wasn’t really very realistic…but it took a more thoughtful examination of the issue than we’ve seen before. I admired the writing for evoking a full discussion of the matter, even if it couldn’t actually present a full discussion.
Another good example of a story that treats a “superhero” more realistically than most is Paul Chadwick’s “Concrete.” In this setting, Concrete is the world’s only super-powered individual, and so his relationship with the government and with the law is more open to close clinical examination than it is in the Marvel or DC universes, where you can’t shake a tree without a superhero or villain falling out. Chadwick’s story has been remarkably thoughtful, and occasionally has been quite close to believable.
in the fox animated series wasn’t bruce wayne on the parole board ? I remember he let ivy out once and she told him as batman that wayne was the only one that believed in her …