# I think december has Jungle Fever **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 18, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749 "2002-06-18T21:06:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/61 "2002-06-28T19:15:42Z")
In this thread: [Sen. Robert Byrd to atheists: Leave the country.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122740) **hajario** has posted cites that show Byrd is a former member (Actually, a “Kleagle” – an official recruiter) of the Klan. I think it’s fair to say that Sen. Byrd may be racist. **Twisty** , the full quote and context of Byrd’s words: > [@](#): > > …when asked by Fox News Sunday morning talk show host Tony Snow about the state of race relations in America. Sen. Byrd warned: “There are white niggers. I’ve seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I’m going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and I’d just as soon quit talking about it so much.” ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/62 "2002-06-28T19:27:59Z")
**december** , I’ve just reviewed this thread and it still doesn’t look like you’ve given any meaningful response to the points raised in **Stuffy’s** OP. Why? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/63 "2002-06-28T19:40:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kal \* > \*\ ***december** , I’ve just reviewed this thread and it still doesn’t look like you’ve given any meaningful response to the points raised in **Stuffy’s** OP. Why? \*\* My response was to observe (in a regrettably inflammatory way) that, in effect, **Stuffy** had accused me of being overly concerned with the plight poor African-Americans. That doesn’t sound like a crime. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/64 "2002-06-28T20:02:33Z")
My response was to observe (in a regrettably inflammatory way) that, in effect, Stuffy had accused me of being overly concerned with the plight poor African-Americans. [/quote] No, you have once again missed the point. **Stuffy** ’s intent, if I read him correctly, is that you are patronizing black people (You poor, suffering black folks needs the white man to lend you a helping hand.) Further, you are using your long-past, putative participation in the civil rights movement to absolve you of any taint of racism. Moreover, you seem to lump all black folks into one gneric glob of blackness, totally disregarding thaat black America is as stratified and segmented as white America. The goals of a black lawyer who is on the partnership fast track are far different from the needs of an unemployed single mother in Jackson, Mississippi, which in turn are very different from the goals of a 22-year-old college senior in Dearborn, MI. This is a point that has consistenly eluded you: Black folks are individuals, not a monolithic group. Black people are not like a slightly funkier version of the Borg. Each person has his or her own dreams, aspirations and problems, and they don’t need Ole Marse **December** to descend from On High to tell them what time it is. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/65 "2002-06-28T20:28:48Z")
to expound on that point, to consistently wonder aloud in threads “why don’t black people support (fill in the blank for a pet project of yours)” is similar to suggesting that “if only they were as smart, learned and analyitical as I, they would see the correctness of my position, and therefore would support it”, and tends to assume that ’ they’: 1. Exist as a cohesive unit of humanity w/singular goals/aspiratioins, issues/needs. 2. Don’t really know the issue and/or 3. Don’t really know what’s in their own best interest. Now, it’s perfectly permissable to wonder why or to argue for your own position/interpretation of data etc. (tho I continue to wonder about your chosen profession since you seem to often have a difficult time analyzing data), however, to attempt to suggest to such a large, diverse group of people that you know better what’s in their best interest is the condescending approach you’ve been accused of (and reminiscent of the plantation owners who believed that it was in the slaves best interest to not learn how to read, to live there in slavery etc.) All of which causes people to suspect you of racism/bigotry/ etc. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/66 "2002-06-28T20:44:16Z")
I never really expected an honest reply from **december** I just wanted to point out the behavior. I’m more than familiar with his bull headed refusal to see his behavior for what it is; like his continued use of columnist to support facts, he’s incorrigible. That doesn’t mean I don’t want it recognized though. Hey gobear, are you listening to Parliament today? I’d love to get into your record collection. [quote] Black people are not like a slightly funkier version of the Borg.\*\* Best line in the thread! ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/67 "2002-06-28T20:53:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* **Stuffy** ’s intent, if I read him correctly, is that you are patronizing black people Yes, that was _his_ point. _My_ point was as stated above. > [@](#): > > Further, you are using your long-past, putative participation in the civil rights movement to absolve you of any taint of racism. This is true. Unfortunately, it’s common to accuse conservatives of racism, so I need a defence. > [@](#): > > Moreover, you seem to lump all black folks into one generic glob of blackness, totally disregarding that black America is as stratified and segmented as white America. I totally deny this accusation. In fact, my expressed views have been the reverse. E.g., go back and read what I wrote about my cousin on page 1 of this thread 06-23-2002 06:37 PM. Read posts I’ve made on other threads about specific individuals I admire, like Clarence Thomas, Walter Wiliams, David Blackwell, Amalya Kearse, and Thomas Sowell. > [@](#): > > **wring** > to expound on that point, to consistently wonder aloud in threads “why don’t black people support (fill in the blank for a pet project of yours)”… **wring** Please provide some examples fo what you mean. If I really do this “consistently,” you should be able to find a great many. BTW many Democratic politicians routinely talk about issues that are good or harmful for “African-Americans.” Are they racists? Perhaps the underlying meaning of this thread is that \*conservatives should be barred from speaking about issues involving race in America. \* ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/68 "2002-06-28T20:54:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Hey gobear, are you listening to Parliament today? I’d love to get into your record collection. Yeah, the office is deserted today, so I brought in my copy of **Tear The Roof Off 1974-1980** , and I’ve been groovin’ to **Bop Gun, Funkenetelechy** , and **Flash Light**. “We shall overcome! We got to shoot 'em with the Bop Gun!” ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/69 "2002-06-28T20:59:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > Actually, **rjung** , Jews and lesbians are not races. So you think “spearchucker” was just Bob Dornan referring to the US Olympic Javelin team, then? :rolleyes: And should I also presume that you believe Jews don’t have a right to claim they’re victims of racism, then? That ought to fly real well with your anti-Palestinian messages in Great Debates… ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/70 "2002-06-28T21:01:19Z")
“Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop” ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/71 "2002-06-28T21:04:14Z")
**Homebrew** , your taste in music and beer are getting me hot. Woof! ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/72 "2002-06-28T21:06:03Z")
_swoons_ ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/73 "2002-06-28T21:06:19Z")
[quotePerhaps the underlying meaning of this thread is that conservatives should be barred from speaking about issues involving race in America. [/quote] No, just you. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/74 "2002-06-28T21:08:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*And should I also presume that you believe Jews don’t have a right to claim they’re victims of racism, then? \*\* Right. Jews may suffer from anti-semitism. Lesbians may suffer from homophobia. Racism has to do with _race_. Religion and sexual orientation are not races. OK? :smack: [sup]Thanks **rjung** for giving me an opportunity to use the new smiley.[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Heloise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e36b37/32.png) [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/75 "2002-06-28T21:14:51Z")
Oh, dear. I can’t believe you just said that. Educate yourself, please. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/76 "2002-06-28T21:21:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Heloise \* > \*\*Oh, dear. I can’t believe you just said that. Educate yourself, please. \*\* 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/77 "2002-06-28T21:21:11Z")
\*&%&^%$ coding…GRRR!!! ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/78 "2002-06-28T21:23:22Z")
> [@](#): > > I totally deny this accusation. In fact, my expressed views have been the reverse. E.g., go back and read what I wrote about my cousin on page 1 of this thread 06-23-2002 06:37 PM. Sorry, bubbe, but that “Some of my best friends are…” routine does not fly here. > [@](#): > > Read posts I’ve made on other threads about specific individuals I admire, like Clarence Thomas, Walter Wiliams, David Blackwell, Amalya Kearse, and Thomas Sowell Don’t see those, but I do see this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=114774) > [@](#): > > should Blacks seek to focus on racial incidents? That is, should they specifically look for racial incidents to focus on? Note that you didn’t qualify your comment by saying “some black people” or “vocal activists.” or [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=109328): > [@](#): > > We shouldn’t equate getting into school X with success. The purpose of getting into a school is education. African-American college students have low graduation rates. I believe they are under-represented in science and engineering. Both of these problems are caused by AA, which too often puts individual students into schools where they are less qualified than average. Ah, yes, the poor, deluded dears, thinking they could compete when they all obviously come from bad schools. ALL black people do not go to bad schools. ALL black people are not less qualified than average. You may be well-intnetioned, but your posts often come off as patronizing and condescending. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/79 "2002-06-28T21:25:40Z")
**June 28, 3:53 pm:** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > Please provide some examples fo what you mean. If I really do this “consistently,” [i.e., wonder aloud in threads “why don’t black people support (fill in the blank for a pet project of yours)”] you should be able to find a great many. **June 28, 3:21 pm:** [Will the school voucher issue cause African Americans to switch from Democrat to Republican?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=122924) ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749/80 "2002-06-28T21:34:08Z")
Put it another way: In Tery Pratchett’s _Hogfather_, there is a line which goes roughly, “Charity isn’t giving people what you want to give them; it’s giving people what need to get.” In other words, instead of you preachifying about the state of black America and pointing to having a black cousin as proof that you aren’t racist, why don’t you be quiet and listen to **Stuffy** , who is A) an authentic black American who lives in B) an authentically black area? I’d bet dollars to donuts that **Stuffy** might have more info than you. And I’ll also bet he has more than one black cousin, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-december-has-jungle-fever/114749.md?page=5)