# I think I have to leave the USA. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442 "2004-10-10T04:49:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/21 "2004-10-10T17:07:06Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Honestly, this is probably the main reason I couldn’t move to the UK/Ireland area. I lived there for a while on a student visa while working in Parliament and the constant comments were just wearying. They were all meant in fun, and I have thick skin so I wasn’t hurt or anything, but it was just a drag. Part of this seems to be cultural - “taking the piss” or “slagging” as it is here in Ireland, is a passtime. Everyone rags on everyone else: if you wear glasses you’ll get ragged on for that, if you have red hair you’ll get ragged on for that, and if you’re American you’ll get ragged on for that. Part of it is that many of your fellow countrymen tell us very loudly how great the US is, and we like to remind you that it ain’t necessarily so. And part of it is also just plain rudeness and racism. ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/22 "2004-10-10T18:04:21Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > I’m surprised they let her in - many countries make it especially tough for retirees to immigrate, since they generally don’t bring scads of money, and won’t be adding any skills to the workforce, but _will_ be demanding medical services. > > I suppose she got in under an asylum program, since she was fleeing cruel treatment at the hands of her horrible son. Tasmania is a pretty big retirement destination for Australians, because it’s very peaceful and the cost of living is very low. I don’t know how it is now, but at least in the last few decades, the population was shrinking, rather than growing. As **Early Out** has explained the kind of retirement visas available, I should think the Tasmanian community would welcome self-funding retirees from _anywhere_ with open arms. Great place to raise kids; horrid place for your kids to try to look for work once they’re raised. ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/23 "2004-10-10T18:05:31Z")
Ugh, I meant to reply to **Inigo** , that’s what I get for spending the first 22 years of my life upside down I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/24 "2004-10-10T19:30:29Z")
It’s only fair to point out that Central Europe and the British Isles are catching up to us in the obesity stakes. It isn’t just an American problem, though it seems to be worse here than elsewere. [Cite.](http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0408/feature3/images/mp_download.3.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/25 "2004-10-10T19:32:54Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Part of this seems to be cultural - “taking the piss” or “slagging” as it is here in Ireland, is a passtime. Everyone rags on everyone else: if you wear glasses you’ll get ragged on for that, if you have red hair you’ll get ragged on for that, and if you’re American you’ll get ragged on for that. Part of it is that many of your fellow countrymen tell us very loudly how great the US is, and we like to remind you that it ain’t necessarily so. And part of it is also just plain rudeness and racism. Well, taking the piss is not a big deal. My friends and I do it here all the time, and same with my friends in the UK. It was the people I barely knew that was just irritating and tiring out. Although, I do understand about my fellow countrymen and the frustration you must get from that. It’s just a reason I don’t think I’d move there, it didn’t take away from the wonderful experience I had over there or from the friends I still have over there and talk to. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/26 "2004-10-10T19:39:54Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > Somehow, we in the U.S. operate under the assumption that we could, if so inclined (that includes you, **Inigo**!), pull up stakes and move to another country. We accept the idea that the U.S. doesn’t let just anybody come live here, but feel almost hurt and offended when we learn that other countries aren’t real thrilled about having us move in! But we take far more refugees and immigrants generally than \*anyone[/] else. Our population is growing at rapid clip, and that growth is accounted for almost entirely by immigration (arriving immigrants and first-generation children). You might almost say we have a “right” to be disappointed when we’d like to emigrate but there’s no place to go, since nobody comes close to us in that respect. Depending on your skills and education though, Canada looks like a possible goal. Once just for grins I took the “acceptability test” on their immigration department’s website, and found that I “passed” by a wide margin. Certainly it’d be easier to set yourself up with a job and home there, before departing the U.S. permanently. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/27 "2004-10-10T19:42:40Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > It was the people I barely knew that was just irritating and tiring out. Yeah, I can see that would get old very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/28 "2004-10-10T19:48:35Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Depending on your skills and education though, Canada looks like a possible goal. Once just for grins I took the “acceptability test” on their immigration department’s website, and found that I “passed” by a wide margin. I took early retirement a few years ago (hence one of the meanings of my username), and when I look at the [self assessment web page](http://www.immigration.ca/assessment.asp) for Canada, there isn’t even a starting category for me to click on. It’s pretty clear they don’t want my sorry ass up there! ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/29 "2004-10-10T20:54:39Z")
I appreciate _all_ the responses so far. I grew up in Seattle (1967-1992) so it doesn’t sound like the weather should be all that much of a problem–I’d be interested to know why IR doesn’t export more dismal-spirited Rock & Roll than…oh, check that. 😉 Following Seattle I spent a few years each in Central Texas (bleah), Monterey, CA (Yeah!), Savannah, GA and now Denver, CO. I observe that folks are pretty much the same all over–Suburbanites, Countryfolk & Cityrats are pretty much all cut form their same respective bolts; maybe with varying idiosyncracy depending on how far from which ocean they live. As for the weight thing, I draw a distinction between where I’m at now vs. the characatures that I encountered in a place I should not have been in the first place. My point was not to focus on that aspect so much as the overall culture which causes it: the excess consumption of garbage food, media, gasoline, housing, on & on & on. My family & I have distanced ourselves somewhat from the most disturbing aspects, but it’s hard to not feel like a freak when I won’t buy the new SUV every other year, I won’t build my dietary intake around fast foods, I don’t have cable (my kids don’t even \*like \* TV! and have no desire to experience 6–Flags)…all that stuff for which I (we) are stereotyped simply don’t apply to my desires nor my situation. I don’t hate this country, nor even most of the 49% of us who accidentally voted incorrectly in 2000. And I certainly am not one to judge others, although I still maintain a flexible opinion or two. But the trouble is, we don’t \*belong \*here. What we value, a magical (a cheezy word, but it fits) “vibe” from the earth that we just can’t find here except for in & around IRE’s West Coast and the Columbia & Snake River valleys, and there’s no way to make a living in the latter that appeals to us. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/30 "2004-10-10T21:21:21Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > But the trouble is, we don’t \*belong \*here. What we value, a magical (a cheezy word, but it fits) “vibe” from the earth that we just can’t find here except for in & around IRE’s West Coast and the Columbia & Snake River valleys, and there’s no way to make a living in the latter that appeals to us. You should visit Somerset in England too, then. I know the feeling you mean, and I personally get that in Somerset. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/31 "2004-10-10T21:36:31Z")
You want to bolt the USA because you got freaked out by fat kids at McDonalds? Don’t let the door hit you in the ass. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/32 "2004-10-10T21:57:24Z")
**astro** , did you not read **Inigo** ’s post two above yours, where he says that the fat kids are indicative of a wider malaise that he perceives? > [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > My point was not to focus on that aspect so much as the overall culture which causes it: the excess consumption of garbage food, media, gasoline, housing, on & on & on. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/33 "2004-10-11T00:34:15Z")
> [@astro](#): > > You want to bolt the USA because you got freaked out by fat kids at McDonalds? Don’t let the door hit you in the ass. Seriously. Absolutely not. I do not want to stuff the USA down my throat. Now, bolt \*from \* the USA…well, that’s a little nearer the attitude, but I certainly am not entertaining such a violently sudden move. :wally ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/34 "2004-10-11T01:59:21Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > I don’t hate this country, nor even most of the 49% of us who accidentally voted incorrectly in 2000. And I certainly am not one to judge others, although I still maintain a flexible opinion or two. But the trouble is, we don’t \*belong \*here. What we value, a magical (a cheezy word, but it fits) “vibe” from the earth that we just can’t find here except for in & around IRE’s West Coast and the Columbia & Snake River valleys, and there’s no way to make a living in the latter that appeals to us. Well wishes and good luck. I’m a very lucky man. I found my spot here in Colorado. I wish the same to you. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/35 "2004-10-11T14:34:44Z")
Being an immigrant to the US, I cannot for the life of me understand those Americans who (either seriously or in jest) want to leave this country. Short of having FU money, in which case Monaco or a carribean island might be an option, the US are beyond a doubt the best place in the world to live. There’s are reason we have beacoup immigration, and next to zero emigration. One of the less immediatly apparent issues that can seriously mess with you when living somewhere else is a basic mindset thing. Best way I can explain it is that in the US, unless there’s a law forbidding you to do something, you can do it. In Europe, unless there’s specific permission in custom and law for some action, you cannot do it. This may be a slight exaggeration, but there is definitely a higher level of freedom in the US. Maybe you should just take your kids to eat at Baja fresh. All fresh ingredients, plenty of less-than-six-hundred-calories options on the menu… In Ireland, with your 30 extra lbs, you’d be just another lardass trying to figure out where you have to register for what this week. Oh, and they have Mickey D’s there too. _Everywhere._ ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/36 "2004-10-11T14:54:39Z")
You know the funny thing about the US is that it is such a big and diverse place, you don’t have to leave the country to live a different lifestyle. Seattle or Vermont are very nice and tend to be more health conscious. Major cities like New York, Chicago, Boston or LA tend to be more sophisticated and they are also very different from each other. You might want to try somewhere else in the US before you up and move to someplace where YOU will be the fat American. ---
**Author:** ![Xerxes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/d2c977/32.png) [@Xerxes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xerxes)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/37 "2004-10-11T15:11:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Best way I can explain it is that in the US, unless there’s a law forbidding you to do something, you can do it. > In Europe, unless there’s specific permission in custom and law for some action, you cannot do it. This may be a slight exaggeration, but there is definitely a higher level of freedom in the US. Err, cite? Not being snarky, but it’s my perception that there are not too many major differences between the US and this part of Europe (the UK) in terms of general freedoms. I’m not including guns, obviously, because that’s a completely different debate. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/38 "2004-10-11T15:18:30Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > In Europe, unless there’s specific permission in custom and law for some action, you cannot do it. This may be a slight exaggeration, but there is definitely a higher level of freedom in the US. Slight? “Complete” would be more accurate. I don’t know where you’re from, and obviously it differs a bit from place to place, and beaurocracy in, say, Italy is legendary, but I have never encountered this. Daily life in Ireland and the UK, the two countries where I’ve lived in Europe, is very similar to that in the US, where I’ve also lived. You do what you want unless you’re prohibited by law (and in Ireland, there’s a relaxed attitude to that too, or at least there was before this particular government). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/39 "2004-10-11T16:44:31Z")
Grass does seem to be greener on the other side of the fence. I recall fondly my experience briefly living in a rural setting on the east coast of England. You don’t have to go to McDonald’s you know. There are many fine restaurants in the USA. Course they may be more expensive but one should put there money where their mouth is. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442/40 "2004-10-11T17:16:38Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > One of the less immediatly apparent issues that can seriously mess with you when living somewhere else is a basic mindset thing. Best way I can explain it is that in the US, unless there’s a law forbidding you to do something, you can do it. > In Europe, unless there’s specific permission in custom and law for some action, you cannot do it. This may be a slight exaggeration, but there is definitely a higher level of freedom in the US. I’m going to join the chorus of people objecting to this. I’m a Brit who has lived in the US for 10 years. I find no higher level of freedom in the US. If anything, I feel that government can be more intrusive in the US as local government crawls all over what you can and cannot do on your own property, for example my county specifies a maximum length of the grass on my lawn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-to-leave-the-usa/268442.md?page=3)