# I think I have Trump's endgame figured out. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 15, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871 "2017-02-15T01:48:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/21 "2017-02-15T12:47:14Z")
The Big Picture thing to realize about the argument over States Rights versus Federal Power, is that it is actually all about access to tools. That is, the people arguing one side or the other about this, are NOT doing so purely out of an esoteric, theoretical notion of having a sense of justice or freedom. They want things decided their way, because they have an agenda that is NOT immediately on the discussion table, which they think they can promote more readily, if they can first get everyone to grant them the local or national power that they want. ``` The real understanding to gain about professional politicians, is similar to gaining an understanding of the real motivation of professional salesmen of any kind. Even the most idealistic salesperson, who believes that the products they represent ARE the best on the market, still have as their strongest motivation, the commissions they will get from selling them. ``` ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/22 "2017-02-15T13:00:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Trump’s only true goal is to go wherever his pversized ego takes him, and the goal of the GOP is to let him go there so they can push plutocratic and libertarian laws with him as president. Best typo of the week. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/23 "2017-02-15T18:31:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t understand why Congress wants to return power to the states. Doesn’t more power for the states mean less power for Congress? Why would they want to diminish their own power? A specific congressman might have a lot of influence in his on state while he’s only one amongst hundreds in Congress, so giving more powers to states might give _him_ more power? A somewhat related question : what percentage of the American population has lived all, or at least most, of their life in the same state? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/24 "2017-02-15T18:38:23Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t understand why Congress wants to return power to the states. Doesn’t more power for the states mean less power for Congress? Why would they want to diminish their own power? A specific congressman might have a lot of influence in his on state while he’s only one amongst hundreds in Congress, so giving more powers to states might give _him_ more power? As my brother said in a very different (military) context : “better be the big fish amongst the small fish that the small fish amongst the big fish”. A somewhat related question : what percentage of the American population has lived all, or at least most, of their life in the same state? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/25 "2017-02-15T20:21:24Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > A specific congressman might have a lot of influence in his on state while he’s only one amongst hundreds in Congress, so giving more powers to states might give _him_ more power? Pretty much - all politics are local, as the saying goes. The calculus is a bit different for senators vs. congressmen, with the latter being far more focused on the small communities from which they are drawn. Senators _tend_ to have less extreme politics ( left or right )in general because of that, but it is only a tendency. > [@](#): > > A somewhat related question : what percentage of the American population has lived all, or at least most, of their life in the same state? As of 2008, [57%](http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2008/12/17/who-moves-who-stays-put-wheres-home/). 37% have never left their hometown. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/26 "2017-02-15T20:32:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I know politicians - the most important thing to them is their own personal power and prestige. Why would they ever do anything to make themselves less important? The US has a history of liberal policies being imposed on conservative states by national entities (of all three branches) and not much in the reverse direction. For this reason, state autonomy tends to be popular in conservative circles, even at the federal level. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/27 "2017-02-18T00:14:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t understand why Congress wants to return power to the states. Doesn’t more power for the states mean less power for Congress? Why would they want to diminish their own power? Actually, this question brings up another very important facet of this discussion, that everyone should take note of. That is, that “power” isn’t a single, simple thing. Some members of the Federal Government want to transfer more “power” to the states, because what they are REALLY transferring, is RESPONSIBILITY (in other words, POLITICAL BLAME). Other transferences of “power” are actually a sneaky way to transfer COSTS. If you manage to arrange for the power over everything you are using, to be transferred to someone else, then THEY have to pay for it all, and THEY have to take on being woken up every time there’s a problem. The “power” isn’t the fun part. Plus, as the GOP knows well, if you transfer as much as you can to the States, you can pretend that you’ve “saved huge amounts of money,” and can therefore cut taxes on all your friends. When everything goes to hell in the states, you’re covered, because “States Rights Means Never Having To Say You Give A Damn.” But you still get full pay. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/28 "2017-02-18T00:19:25Z")
[Ghostbusters](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA1SxZoFmOU) had Trump’s endgame figured out. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/29 "2017-02-18T00:26:24Z")
I would bet $1000 that Trump has never read the 10th amendment ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/30 "2017-02-18T00:31:55Z")
But to answer seriously, I don’t think Trump _has_ a plan, at least not one driven by a particular political ideology. He seems to be driven mostly by his own personal prejudices, and his overriding belief that Donald Trump is the greatest human being God ever created. The people around him, though, are in many cases ideologically driven, and in some cases that ideology is states rights and small government. Which isn’t an ideology I subscribe to anyway, but if that’s what _you_ want, I guess the question is, Is it worth the risk of all the damage Trump can do to the country? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/31 "2017-02-18T00:37:34Z")
Also, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Trump to reduce the power of the federal government, so long as he’s the one holding that power. But gutting particular agencies whose purpose he doesn’t understand or appreciate, sure. So you know, if you don’t like clean air and water, or for our young people to be well educated, or for nuclear material to be handled safely . . . ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/32 "2017-02-18T08:31:29Z")
I’m sure he thinks it’s the Tenth Article and knows no more about it than he does the First one. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/33 "2017-02-18T11:35:05Z")
The plan (whether directed by T and/or Bannon) seems to be to hamstring the Federal government and make sure that only Trump’s own handpicked personnel are in charge of what information reaches the public from the various agencies. The media will be villainized as untrustworthy, lying sewer rats and any remaining government employees who actually have valid information will be silenced, to make sure that the only message that gets out is that America is “great again” and everything is working like a well-oiled clock and don’t you worry your pretty head about the fact that pollution is rampant, health care more unavailable than ever, Medicare and Medicaid defunded, Social Security retirement age raised to 115, food contaminated, unemployment sky high, etc. It really, really looks to me like Cheeto and/or his minions are definitely trying to derail various departments and keep that information from getting out as much as they can. This is scary, and even more scary is that so many Americans voted for this. Will they finally realize they made a mistake when government services are no longer available? For now it seems T could dance the Macarena naked while pooping and signing an EO to release Charles Manson and 40% of the country would still insist he was doing a great job. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2017, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/34 "2017-02-25T07:11:09Z")
Are we talking Articles of Confederation? Or are we saying that Yes California ain’t no big thing, because all the states are going to be their own separate princedoms now? We’ve talked about the Tenth Amendment before, and it’s still both a) pretty much the biggest piece of meaningless noise in the Bill of Rights, and b) logically opposite what “Tenthers” want: If rights are fundamentally vested in the people, then they are\* not \*fundamentally vested in state governments and hyper-gerrymandered state legislators. The people should have the right to delegate some things to the states and others to the federal government, and whinging about constitutionally limited federal government shouldn’t mean a thing, ETA: Also, you are projecting something you desire onto a political leader, which is a clue that you’re engaged in wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2017, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/35 "2017-02-25T07:35:28Z")
[States’ rights for bathrooms, but not for marijuana](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/states-rights-marijuana-bathrooms/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/36 "2017-02-25T12:38:27Z")
Whenever I hear a call for “state’s rights” I ask the next question - rights to do what exactly? If history is any guide, the end product is mistreatment of those deemed as inferior, and eventually warring with neighboring states. So, let’s say we give states the equivalent autonomy of countries. Next people would be clamoring for county/parish rights - because the state capitol is too far away and doesn’t address our local needs. Next it would be city/town/village rights - because the county doesn’t address our local needs. Turtles all the way down. So, no thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Poto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ab992/32.png) [@Poto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poto)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/37 "2017-02-25T12:50:27Z")
The politics is just a tool for Trump to keep his voters liking him. The reason Trump likes Putin is that he wants to be like Putin, he wants to be liked by tens of millions. The only way to achieve this is from the right. The GOP voters will have to reach for the inner racist and the hate for the federal government. There is no road to take for Trump to get Democrats to like him. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/38 "2017-02-25T16:06:01Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The US has a history of liberal policies being imposed on conservative states by national entities (of all three branches) and not much in the reverse direction. You’re right, the federal government has indeed been more respectful of individual freedom and equality than the states. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871/39 "2017-02-25T16:11:56Z")
> [@Poto](#): > > There is no road to take for Trump to get Democrats to like him. There might have been, though. I don’t see Trump having much regard for the Republicans, they were just the easiest path. Under slightly different circumstances, I can see Trump’s nativist “immigrants-took-ur-job” message playing to working class Democrats and if that route had seemed more promising, he would have chased it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-have-trumps-endgame-figured-out/779871.md?page=1)