# I Think I Know Why God Doesn't Heal Amputees **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 8, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193 "2012-02-08T15:22:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/301 "2012-02-09T17:08:22Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Are you sure about that ? I know she’s supposed to have conceived Jesus immaculately, but I’m not aware of her being portrayed as anything other than a regular Jewish gal in the book. Probably smoking hot, as Israeli chicks are wont to be, but immaculate and sinless ? Could I talk to you outside for a minute? Thanks. Dude, c’mon. You’re killing us in there. Here, look over [this pamphlet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception), get your head in the game, and then come back inside. We need your A-game, sport. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/302 "2012-02-09T17:14:13Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Nope, you would still resort to either “well it’s just a concidence” or “hey someone wrote that after the fact” counters. > > In fact, the Bible does contain detailed fullfilled prophecies with real names and places. Of course, atheists reject this. One example are the Tyre prophecies. Atheists completely ignore the fact the prophecies detailed that the city would be destroyed, and the exact method of destruction: > > Ezekiel 26:12 > > Alexander’s workers actually laid the broken-up pieces of Tyre in the water exactly as prophecied. Very detailed, but atheists retreat to the argument that a city named Tyre exists in that region. Nevermind if it’s not in the exact area as the original Tyre or that it never became a big city again as predicted. Really weak sauce. An army looting things and burning down houses? Gee, that’s really a stunning prediction right there. No idea how a prophet could’ve come up with such a specific and rare event like that unless it was divine revelation. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/303 "2012-02-09T17:15:00Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > [The Immaculate Conception](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception) is Mary being conceived without Original Sin, so she could carry baby Jesus. The Virgin Birth is about Jesus. People often get those two confused. Huh. Thanks for the clarification, I stand corrected. What will those wacky papists think of next ? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/304 "2012-02-09T17:22:07Z")
> [@dorsk188](#): > > [Actually, they taste good because evolution selected humans that would crave them.](http://youtu.be/TzN-uIVkfjg) But I admire your adventurous spirit. > Devastatingly true. It also allows the person to believe they’re healthy-living, hard-working, chaste, and pious (even when they’re not) because so far, they’re fine. Not exactly a 1-to-1 relationship with religion, though, as most sick, poor, rape victims don’t revel in their fate, but atheists are often quite pleased with their lot in life. Probably because it’s a mental state independent from outside influence (…or is it??? :eek:). > Sudden remission of cancer is a natural occurrence. Apparently, the regeneration of fingertips is a natural occurrence. If you want to prove a supernatural occurrence, it must be something that cannot be explained via natural processes. (There’s going to be some grey area here, but if you can get into the grey area, that’s an achievement in and of itself.) The real problem you’re having isn’t that atheists don’t accept evidence, it’s that you don’t have any. if it is such a natural occurance, why don’t we see it happen more often? Where is your evidence? This is an extremely rare occurance. Tumors disappear immediately with zero treatment. That doesn’t happen naturally. > [@dorsk188](#): > > No dead person has ever mentioned a life after death. It’s funny how only living people go on and on about it. How could they if they are dead? Yet, thereare many reports of people leaving their bodies, recalling specific details outside of the body, and then coming back to life. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/305 "2012-02-09T17:37:01Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > if it is such a natural occurance, why don’t we see it happen more often? You realize this doesn’t make any sense, right? There is zero dispute about the fact that this does happen in nature. That doesn’t mean it happens constantly. Some events are common and some aren’t. > [@](#): > > Where is your evidence? This is an extremely rare occurance. Tumors disappear immediately with zero treatment. That doesn’t happen naturally. You’ve just acknowledged a couple of times that it does happen. Can you cite the fact that those occurences are somehow “not natural?” > [@](#): > > How could they if they are dead? Yet, thereare many reports of people leaving their bodies, recalling specific details outside of the body, and then coming back to life. No, there are not reports of people “leaving their bodies.” There are reports of people maintaining various levels of consciousness during surgery (which sounds horrible), of people having what they later describe as spiritual experiences during events like oxygen deprivation, and hallucinations described as out of body experiences. Pinning down whether this stuff occurs while the patient is “dead,” as opposed to before or after, is difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/306 "2012-02-09T17:41:14Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > if it is such a natural occurance, why don’t we see it happen more often? Where is your evidence? This is an extremely rare occurance. Tumors disappear immediately with zero treatment. That doesn’t happen naturally. If there is a probability that a flicked coin will land on its side, why don’t we see it happen more often ? But there is ample evidence that sometimes, they do. Some people win at roulette, too. Do you similarly attribute all low odds occurrences to divine intervention ? Like, one time I ate salad in a restaurant, and there was a caterpillar in it. Not a fast food joint or a dive bar, either - good, upstanding place with quality produce and a solid food chain behind it. Did god put the caterpillar there ? Because that’d be fucked up of him, if you don’t mind me saying so. Also bear in mind that “I can’t believe this” is not in and of itself an argument towards “this is not possible”. > [@](#): > > How could they if they are dead? That’s, y’know, sort of his point. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/307 "2012-02-09T17:47:43Z")
The “why doesn’t this happen more often?” question still applies if spontaneous remissions _are_ miraculous, which means it’s not a good argument either way. And I already asked that question at least once in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/308 "2012-02-09T17:57:41Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I have no problem conceding that my argument doesn’t hold up. It was just a random thought, and I would be interested in hearing other Christians tackle the problem. There are other Christians on this board (although I haven’t seen any in this thread who seem particularly supportive of your “random thought”, so far). I suppose it’s possible one or two might come along and help you “tackle the problem.” Here’s the catch, though: by choosing to have the discussion here at the SDMB, you’re opening the topic up to _anyone_ who takes it into their head to come along and participate. You **don’t** get to decree that the discussion will be open only to believers, and you **don’t** get to demand that the participants be respectful of your starting premises. That’s just the way this board operates. There probably ARE other sites where you can actually have the discussion you seem to be saying you want to have. Should you choose to go to one of those, and have it, please know that you carry my good wishes with you. ---
**Author:** ![dorsk188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@dorsk188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorsk188)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/309 "2012-02-09T18:04:58Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > if it is such a natural occurance, why don’t we see it happen more often? Because it’s… > [@GEEPERS](#): > > …an extremely rare occurance. Look at that, you answered your own question. Very rare things happen sometimes, but only very rarely. This ain’t exactly rocket science. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Tumors disappear immediately with zero treatment. That doesn’t happen naturally. Describe “immediately”. And how big are the tumors? If you describe, in detail, the incident, then at least we’re on the track of a real evidence-based conversation. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > How could they if they are dead? …Yes, that was the joke… > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Yet, thereare many reports of people leaving their bodies, recalling specific details outside of the body, and then coming back to life. LSD will make you see all sorts of things, yet you wouldn’t assert that that it’s true. But when it’s oxygen-starved brain cells or someone under anesthesia, apparently then we should pay attention, right? Except there are tons of people who see all sorts of random things in those circumstances, but it’s only the religiousy experiences that get told and retold by desperate believers looking desperately for some direct evidence that supports their religion (even though their religion asserts plenty of things we know not to be true like a global flood). All you have evidence for is “people experience weird things sometimes”. Moreover, we know that the kind of hallucinations people experience are colored by their culture. Christians see heaven or hell, Jesus and demons. Japanese people see Onryō. After the beginning of the space race, people started to get abducted by aliens I will only be impressed by these experiences when someone gains information they couldn’t have gotten otherwise beyond statistical chance. Like if Jimmy Hoffa tells them where he’s buried. What you get, instead, is almost always “specific details” like it was peaceful and bright and my grandmother was there, which are hardly that specific. Even if they came back with the 20 digit passcode for the lock on St. Peter’s gate, it’s still indistinguishable from (and should be treated with all the respect of) a vivid dream. We know hallucinations happen. I’ve had extremely vivid visual hallucinations when I was near sleep. Unless you can demonstrate one way in which those experiences are definitely not a hallucination, it’s reasonable to dismiss them as such. You want to know what kind of evidence skeptics will accept? [This song](http://youtu.be/bBUc_kATGgg). I think, will give you an idea. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/310 "2012-02-09T18:25:51Z")
> [@dorsk188](#): > > Describe “immediately”. And how big are the tumors? If you describe, in detail, the incident, then at least we’re on the track of a real evidence-based conversation. [Here’s some information on spontaneous remission and regression of tumors.](http://bioinfo.tg.fh-giessen.de/cancer/hobohm-2001-cii.pdf) It’s hard to get a read on how often it happens, but it does. It seems more common in some types of cancer with others, but there have been reports of spontaneous regressions even with some large, advanced tumors like the one at the beginning of that linked document. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/311 "2012-02-09T18:32:03Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Right, facts like … > I live in the \*\*real world \*\*where those “facts” are considered fiction. {Emphasis added to quote.} Usually I just say that my irony meter has blown up. But now every irony meter in the world has exploded. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Because they didn’t truly seek him. Yes, atheists read the Bible, not seeking divine truth, but with the attitude of “hey I want to find some contradictions or stories of evil God to make those Christians look like idiots. lol” Could you possibly at least try harder to break all records for making ridiculous statements? 😉 In the real real world, it isn’t unknown for “non-believers” or lapsed “believers” to make an honest effort to find your great so-called truth in the bible. Sometimes this is in response to the urging of a friend. Sometimes something makes them think to do it wihout any personal prompting. In some cases, they do accept the “truth” and some of those people would have qualified as atheists. I am convinced from personal experience that it is emotional factors that make for the conversion. Fortunately, some people who do the reading realize that there is no great “truth” and don’t have to spend years unlearning it. * * * “… stories of evil God” … You mean things like ordering all the Midianites killed except for the little girls who were still virgins? Of course. there was nothing wrong with ordering them to be raped, either, now was there? :rolleyes: * * * “… to make those Christians look like idiots.” … Oh, great. Now it will be forever impossible to build another irony meter, for hundreds of years. You know, until the residual irony radiation wears off a bit. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![dorsk188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@dorsk188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorsk188)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/312 "2012-02-09T18:40:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Here’s some information on spontaneous remission and regression of tumors.](http://bioinfo.tg.fh-giessen.de/cancer/hobohm-2001-cii.pdf) It’s hard to get a read on how often it happens, but it does. It seems more common in some types of cancer with others, but there have been reports of spontaneous regressions even with some large, advanced tumors like the one at the beginning of that linked document. An interesting read, but it’s definitely not a “miraculous event”. GEEPERS seems to have a specific story to relay. Based on that story, I was hoping to steer the conversation back toward biological v. theological healing. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/313 "2012-02-09T18:42:00Z")
> [@Trans Fat Og](#): > > {Emphasis added to quote.} > > Usually I just say that my irony meter has blown up. But now every irony meter in the world has exploded. > > Could you possibly at least try harder to break all records for making ridiculous statements? 😉 > > In the real real world, it isn’t unknown for “non-believers” or lapsed “believers” to make an honest effort to find your great so-called truth in the bible. Sometimes this is in response to the urging of a friend. Sometimes something makes them think to do it wihout any personal prompting. > > In some cases, they do accept the “truth” and some of those people would have qualified as atheists. I am convinced from personal experience that it is emotional factors that make for the conversion. > > Fortunately, some people who do the reading realize that there is no great “truth” and don’t have to spend years unlearning it. > > * * * > > “… stories of evil God” … You mean things like ordering all the Midianites killed except for the little girls who were still virgins? Of course. there was nothing wrong with ordering them to be raped, either, now was there? :rolleyes: > > * * * > > “… to make those Christians look like idiots.” … Oh, great. Now it will be forever impossible to build another irony meter, for hundreds of years. You know, until the residual irony radiation wears off a bit. 😛 The real irony is your comments here serve to prove my point. Atheists love to mock Christians. I guess it makes their non-belief seem more valid. BTW, if I’m the potter and I smash my pottery piece and start over, does that make me evil? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/314 "2012-02-09T18:47:10Z")
It does when your pottery has feelings (notably nociception), self-awareness and all that good stuff, yes. ETA: or to put it another way, if I’m the daddy and I smash my kid to pieces and make a new one, does that make me evil ? ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/315 "2012-02-09T18:49:44Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > BTW, if I’m the potter and I smash my pottery piece and start over, does that make me evil? If your pots are sentient, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/316 "2012-02-09T18:49:51Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The real irony is your comments here serve to prove my point. Atheists love to mock Christians. I guess it makes their non-belief seem more valid. > BTW, if I’m the potter and I smash my pottery piece and start over, does that make me evil? How on earth do you manage to hammer the last nail in when you’re way up on that cross? You are making ridiculous statements worthy of mockery. I think at least some of us crazy atheists likely consider it “evil” to snuff out people’s lives. That your view of God doesn’t isn’t going to win you many converts. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/317 "2012-02-09T18:51:36Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The real irony is your comments here serve to prove my point. Atheists love to mock Christians. I guess it makes their non-belief seem more valid. That’s not necessarily true. Remember, atheists have met you half way throughout this thread. And you’ve constantly evaded, ignored and mocked them. In the post I’m quoting you’re mocking atheists. The reason you get pushback is that you are obviously unable to defend your beliefs. > [@](#): > > BTW, if I’m the potter and I smash my pottery piece and start over, does that make me evil? Are the pots sentient and able to suffer? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/318 "2012-02-09T18:54:37Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > if I’m the potter and I smash my pottery piece and start over, does that make me evil? No, but if you’re a father and you kill your child and start over, it kinda does… P.S. “the potter”, like, Harry? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/319 "2012-02-09T18:57:40Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > BTW, if I’m the potter and I smash my pottery piece and start over, does that make me evil? According to your Bible, God transformed man from clay, which would mean that man is clay no longer. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/320 "2012-02-09T19:03:14Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > How on earth do you manage to hammer the last nail in when you’re way up on that cross? > > You are making ridiculous statements worthy of mockery. I think at least some of us crazy atheists likely consider it “evil” to snuff out people’s lives. That your view of God doesn’t isn’t going to win you many converts. Problem is you are applying your own sense of morality to a spiritual reality. Who gives you the right to say your morality is the ultimate source of right and wrong? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193.md?page=17)