# I Think I Know Why God Doesn't Heal Amputees **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 8, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193 "2012-02-08T15:22:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/61 "2012-02-08T18:15:17Z")
To quote Hitchens, “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” If you just say, “God doesn’t heal amputees because of X” you aren’t bringing any evidence to bear. So I can just as easily say, “God doesn’t exist, so he doesn’t heal anyone.” Or, “God doesn’t heal amputees because he only lets sinners lose body parts.” Or, “God won’t cure amputations because the devil has threatened to rape Him if He ever does.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/62 "2012-02-08T18:17:14Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > This is the typical atheist response, just like saying all NDE are hallucinations. That does not mean it is false. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/63 "2012-02-08T18:22:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Adam and Eve didn’t sit down and eat a bag of Tostitos after they got kicked out of paradise. Do you have any sort of evidence for this? It’s so easy for you to hand waive things like this away, but you can’t ignore the logic that the Jews were scattered across this world after WWII, just like the Bible predicted and now they export fruit because God cursed them to crave salty snacks. How can you cure the missing flesh of those who craves snacks? Want not delicious treats, for you are less than a lizard. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/64 "2012-02-08T18:27:15Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > You need to provide some evidence if you want to make claims like this in a debate. Anyone can reckon something, it’s another thing to offer proof. I think I’m right in saying archaeological examination of ancient skeletons shows the opposite of what you are suggesting, on average we are more healthy than our ancestors. Of course, the reasons for that are environmental rather than genetic (better nutrition), but there is no evidence they were less prone to genetic defects. > > We crave fat and sugar because they have a high nutritional value. Not everyone eats them to excess. I enjoy the occasional pizza, but I much prefer raw peas picked straight off the plant (my mouth is watering at the thought). I find fresh, well cooked vegetables delicious. That doesn’t make me virtuous. > > How exactly do you see sin affecting the physical body? Does a person’s sin affect them, or does it seep out and affect everyone like a fog? The former leads to the conclusion that the deformed are paying for their sins. > > Let he who is without sin cast the first salamander. Well if we had the remains of Enoch’s body then perhaps I could provide evidence, but it is a pointless argument because you obviously think the whole Genesis story is BS anyways. Sin is a spiritual concept so it won’t make any sense to an atheist. Heart disease is the #1 killer of man. If the body is simply performing correctly with its desired food choices, why are we getting clogged arteries? Many people including myself would take a pizza over eating raw veggies any day. A sin nature can steer the physical body to become addicted to drugs, or alcohol, harmful activies like sex with multiple partners, and as quite evident online, taking pleasure in making fun of other people. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/65 "2012-02-08T18:30:15Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The prophecies were detailed enough so that people would recognize the events. It would make no sense to a Jew in the OT to say that in the year XXXX, Israel would be attacked by a coliation of Russia, China and Iran with smart bombs. This actually relates back to the original topic - if anyone remembers that - because it’s very similar to the problem of miracle healings. We’re supposed to find rare and vague stuff more convincing as evidence of God than common and specific stuff even though common healings and specific, detailed prophecies would be much harder to explain away. Any omnipotent god could easily prove his existence with specific prophecies and observable, irrefutable miracles, but that doesn’t happen. (Because there aren’t any gods.) Instead we’re supposed to accept that God exists beacuse a few cancer patients go into spontaneous remission and overlook the fact that the vast majority of them don’t. We’re supposed to be more impressed with prophecies that are constantly being reinterpreted to fit current events than with a real, falsifiable prediction. We’re supposed to accept the absence of good evidence as proof, which doesn’t work very well. (So people make excuses about faith.) Most of this prophecy stuff is actually about the contemporary Roman Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/66 "2012-02-08T18:30:55Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > This is the typical atheist response, just like saying all NDE are hallucinations. Closed door argument. By complaining that the prophecy is vague, you’ve made it virtually impossible for the Bible be prophetic. Um…Okay… So what are your thoughts on Nostradamus’ prophecies? Do you think they are true? Also, how about my own prophecy: There will be a great war and it will involve more than two nations. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > The prophecies were detailed enough so that people would recognize the events. It would make no sense to a Jew in the OT to say that in the year XXXX, Israel would be attacked by a coliation of Russia, China and Iran with smart bombs. I saw nothing about the holocaust, a global war, or anything remotely like modern battle. Why _wouldn’t_ a Jew in the OT say something to the effect of ‘these events will take place in nearly 3,000 years in the future’? My newspaper gives me vague horoscopes that include details about ‘my future’, if we followed your logic, we’d have to conclude that those horoscopes were supernatural. Is this what you believe? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/67 "2012-02-08T18:32:38Z")
I knew this thread was headed to a quagmire. There’s a lot of philosophical discussion going on here but since this thread started in GQ and assuming that the OP wanted factual answers to his post, I would like to see GEEPERS address the issues of: 1. The human body is not designed for a vegetarian diet. 2. There is no anthropologal evidence that genetic mutations are increasing 3. That regrowth of body seems to be related to amount of tissue lost from simple debridements (e.g. skinned knees, fingertips) to larger amputations. 4. And I am curious if all amputations count or just medical ones. If my fingers are removed due to diabetes, is that the same as losing them in a boating accident or having a psychological maniac cut them off? Is only natural amputation because of sin or all amputations. As for Lobohan sinning with his fingertips, remember everytime you touch yourself, an angel cries. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/68 "2012-02-08T18:33:08Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Well if we had the remains of Enoch’s body then perhaps I could provide evidence, but it is a pointless argument because you obviously think the whole Genesis story is BS anyways. Sin is a spiritual concept so it won’t make any sense to an atheist. It doesn’t make sense, period, atheist or not. You have God telling people, who don’t understand that disobeying God is wrong, not to do something. I think your ‘won’t make any sense to an atheist’ is code for ‘I can’t explain it, but I believe it on faith’. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/69 "2012-02-08T18:33:45Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Well if we had the remains of Enoch’s body then perhaps I could provide evidence, but it is a pointless argument because you obviously think the whole Genesis story is BS anyways. Sin is a spiritual concept so it won’t make any sense to an atheist. > > Heart disease is the #1 killer of man. If the body is simply performing correctly with its desired food choices, why are we getting clogged arteries? Many people including myself would take a pizza over eating raw veggies any day. > > A sin nature can steer the physical body to become addicted to drugs, or alcohol, harmful activies like sex with multiple partners, and as quite evident online, taking pleasure in making fun of other people. Why are you posting on this message board, and in this forum? If you are so sure that we dismissed your thread when we saw the title, if you are so sure that we are all atheists incapable of understanding what you post…_Why are you here?_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/70 "2012-02-08T18:35:16Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Heart disease is the #1 killer of man. If the body is simply performing correctly with its desired food choices, why are we getting clogged arteries? Obesity and poor eating habits are major contributors to heart disease, but they are not the only causes of heart disease. Let’s not oversimplify this. And of course heart disease is the big killer in developed countries, but in developing countries the biggest killer is HIV and AIDS, and respiratory diseases also kill more people than heart disease. Other preventable diseases like TB and malaria also kill a lot of people, and so does malnutrition. [(Cite.)](http://www.who.int/whr/2004/annex/topic/en/annex_2_en.pdf) Can you explain how this relates to sin, please? Because it seems to have nothing to do with a rather Western-centered argument. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/71 "2012-02-08T18:36:12Z")
I hesitate to bring this up, since I think the evidence for it is paltry, but what do you make of the [Miracle of Calanda](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Calanda), GEEPERS? Also, GEEPERS, do you post on any other message boards? ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/72 "2012-02-08T18:36:19Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Let’s cut to the chase on this and start with the initial assumption, that amputated tissue can never grow back. > > [Regeneration (biology) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regeneration_(biology)#Humans) > If Wikipedia’s cites can be believed, then fingertips, including bone, do sometimes grow back. > > So is it the case that God can create small amounts of sin corrupted flesh, but larger amounts (beyond just a fingertip) are a problem for him? > > Maybe fingertips don’t suffer from original sin like the rest of the body? Ok, so you demonstrated that parts of the body can regrow just like skin. But that is a built in mechanism of the body. The body does it by itself without God’s hand. The amputee question is asking for divine intervention to create new flesh outside of natural mechanisms. You might as well ask why didn’t God give us the internal ability like a lizard to regrow limbs. Hey, why not just make us completely invincible why He’s at it? Again, it has to do with sin, and the wages of sin = death. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/73 "2012-02-08T18:36:34Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Heart disease is the #1 killer of man. If the body is simply performing correctly with its desired food choices, why are we getting clogged arteries? Many people including myself would take a pizza over eating raw veggies any day. Lack of intelligent design. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/74 "2012-02-08T18:38:06Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The prophecies were detailed enough so that people would recognize the events. It would make no sense to a Jew in the OT to say that in the year XXXX, Israel would be attacked by a coliation of Russia, China and Iran with smart bombs. I don’t see why that would be a flaw. If anything, it would be a bonus - if you give someone something they can understand, then their spreading of that message will inevitably be tainted by their own understanding. If I tell someone that “Steve’s having a surprise party” it’ll become “We’re throwing Steve a surprise party” and “It’s Steve’s birthday, don’t tell him but we’re having a party for it”. Whereas if someone doesn’t understand what’s being said - though understands the grammar and connective words - then they have to copy it by rote, and you avoid issues of re-interpretation. Speaking frankly, if I opened the Bible and say “Hey, in the year XXXX, Israel will be attacked by a coalition of…” and so on, there’d be a massive amount of believers. I’d probably be one. That’s the kind of specificity which (and I truly mean no offense) can’t really be gainsayed by claims of vagueness. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/75 "2012-02-08T18:38:31Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Ok, so you demonstrated that parts of the body can regrow just like skin. But that is a built in mechanism of the body. The body does it by itself without God’s hand. > > The amputee question is asking for divine intervention to create new flesh outside of natural mechanisms. You might as well ask why didn’t God give us the internal ability like a lizard to regrow limbs. > > Hey, why not just make us completely invincible why He’s at it? Again, it has to do with sin, and the wages of sin = death. But if our bodies are constantly getting worse (genetically), then why should any such healing take place? Why do any ‘miracle healings’ happen? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/76 "2012-02-08T18:40:03Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The amputee question is asking for divine intervention to create new flesh outside of natural mechanisms. You might as well ask why didn’t God give us the internal ability like a lizard to regrow limbs. They did ask that, and you haven’t come up with an answer! ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/77 "2012-02-08T18:41:00Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Man was first created as a perfect eternal being. That’s a metaphysical and religious statement, not supported by evidence. > [@](#): > > Our bodies were designed to be vegetarian, and free of any sickness. Your statement is unsupported by science or evidence. > [@](#): > > However, after the fall, drastatic changes took place. Sin was introduced into the human body. Sin is a religious concept only. It is undetectable by any means known to science. > [@](#): > > Sin is a force that is opposite of God. God is peace, love and life. Sin is death, fear, and pain. That’s a metaphysical and religious statement, not supported by evidence. > [@](#): > > Sin changed our physical makeup. Cellular breakdown began in the human body. That’s a metaphysical and religious statement, not supported by evidence. > [@](#): > > Sin is the reason our bodies crave harmful things. That’s a metaphysical and religious statement, not supported by evidence. > [@](#): > > We became meat eaters as well. Man was always a meat eater, as evidenced by bones in old caves, even ones before 4000BC, when the world supposedly didn’t exist. > [@](#): > > like an infection, the sin nature was passed to every human being ever born corrupting our physical body. That’s a metaphysical and religious statement, not supported by evidence. In short, the reason God doesn’t heal amputees is that He, She, They, or It doesn’t exist. That statement fits all the evidence we have. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/78 "2012-02-08T18:45:00Z")
Boo hoo - my evidence free statements are being discounted by nasty people. Obviously they are closed minded atheists. Or, even better, you could go find evidence to support your theories, consider if the evidence actually supports your initial supposition and adjust your worldview accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/79 "2012-02-08T18:46:18Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Speaking frankly, if I opened the Bible and say “Hey, in the year XXXX, Israel will be attacked by a coalition of…” and so on, there’d be a massive amount of believers. I’d probably be one. That’s the kind of specificity which (and I truly mean no offense) can’t really be gainsayed by claims of vagueness. The Biblical predictions are not vague, you just need to learn how to read the Bible. [This book](http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Code-Michael-Drosnin/dp/0684810794)may help. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193/80 "2012-02-08T18:46:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Obesity and poor eating habits are major contributors to heart disease, but they are not the only causes of heart disease. Let’s not oversimplify this. And of course heart disease is the big killer in developed countries, but in developing countries the biggest killer is HIV and AIDS, and respiratory diseases also kill more people than heart disease. Other preventable diseases like TB and malaria also kill a lot of people, and so does malnutrition. [(Cite.)](http://www.who.int/whr/2004/annex/topic/en/annex_2_en.pdf) Can you explain how this relates to sin, please? Because it seems to have nothing to do with a rather Western-centered argument. And in countries were fast food started being introduced, the heart attack rate shot up. Doctors will tell you that even eating fast food just once a month is enough to do damage, but many people sure enjoy it. Of course other countries have higher death rates from other causes because they don’t have access to our western diet and indulges. What’s next? Are you going to argue that eating bacon and animal fat is good for you? Leviticus 7:23 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-know-why-god-doesnt-heal-amputees/612193.md?page=5)