# I think I may be changing to an anti abortion (pro life) stance **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 8, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326 "2015-08-08T17:32:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/581 "2015-08-17T20:09:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I was musing on inheritance issues earlier today. Surely there’s precedent on this issue. I can picture case where: > > -A wealthy man dies while his second wife is pregnant. > -The man’s will says his estate is to be divided up “among my children.” > -The man’s adult children from his first marriage don’t want to give a share to their not-yet-born half-sibling, argue that since the fetus is not a legal person, it has no standing to be considered as an heir. > > There have to be lots of cases like this, where enough money was involved that it went to the country’s Supreme Court. Frankly, I’d be quite surprised if a fetus would not get a share to be held in trust, the funds returned to the estate if the fetus is stillborn, but otherwise receiving the money 18 or 21 years (or whatever) after birth. Trouble is, when I google “fetal inheritance”, almost all the websites are about inheriting genetic defects rather than wealth. > > I see wiki has a page called [“Posthumous birth”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumous_birth), which seems on point. I’ll give it a look-see. Absolutely, there are hundreds of years of precedence in British law for inheriting a peerage when your father died before your birth. U.S. law is fairly heavily derived from British law, it would shock me if that weren’t the case. But the peerage is held for you - it isn’t granted to you until after your birth. > **[Posthumous birth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumous_birth)** > > A posthumous birth is the birth of a child after the death of a parent. A person born in these circumstances is called a posthumous child or a posthumously born person. Most instances of posthumous birth involve the birth of a child after the death of its father, but the term is also applied to infants delivered shortly after the death of the mother, usually by caesarean section. > Posthumous birth has special implications in law, potentially affecting the child's citizenship and legal rights, inh... ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/582 "2015-08-17T20:11:51Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > There isn’t legislation (not in the U.S.) because the situation is between the parents, the patients (who are too young to have opinions) and the doctors. Which is how medical decisions SHOULD be made. So far you are claiming that in the US parents are entirely free to decide which ones of their conjoined twin children live an which die. Unless you can somehow back that up, I doubt it. I have not been able to find an example that confirms or contradicts your claim in the US. What I have been able to find was an [example from the UK](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re_A_%28conjoined_twins%29). Interestingly the court there ruled that a separation was to take place even against the wishes of the parents. Had the decision been made as you say medical decisions SHOULD be made, both twins would have died. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/583 "2015-08-17T20:13:05Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Absolutely, there are hundreds of years of precedence in British law for inheriting a peerage when your father died before your birth. U.S. law is fairly heavily derived from British law, it would shock me if that weren’t the case. > > But the peerage is held for you - it isn’t granted to you until after your birth. > > [Posthumous birth - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumous_birth) Well, sure, titles and property (and everything, really) wouldn’t be considered belonging to the fetus - those transfers can and should only happen after a successful birth. What’s a fetus gonna spend money on, anyway? Window treatments? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/584 "2015-08-17T20:20:03Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > So far you are claiming that in the US parents are entirely free to decide which ones of their conjoined twin children live an which die. Unless you can somehow back that up, I doubt it. > > I have not been able to find an example that confirms or contradicts your claim in the US. What I have been able to find was an [example from the UK](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re_A_%28conjoined_twins%29). Interestingly the court there ruled that a separation was to take place even against the wishes of the parents. Had the decision been made as you say medical decisions SHOULD be made, both twins would have died. And my position is that the court had no business in the decision. There isn’t a law specific to conjoined twins (or I would be shocked if there were), the court can, in the U.S. intervene even in absence of a law if someone argues on behalf of the rights of the child. And my further position is that when it comes to my body, no one should have legal standing before the court except me, with the exception my husband, should I become incapacitated. Therefore, it isn’t the courts business. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/585 "2015-08-17T20:42:15Z")
Of course, in the case of conjoinment, the parents had to assemble (or arrange for the assembly of) a team of highly-skilled medical professionals, who would have to come to a consensus of precisely how (or even if) the surgery would proceed, the goal being the best possible outcome. If a particular doctor thought the plan was going in an unsafe or unethical direction, his or her colleagues can try to explain their reasoning and if that doesn’t help, he or she can walk away. In this very specific instance, I’d gladly put more trust in the doctors who will perform the procedure than a group of judges analyzing the issue in theory. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/586 "2015-08-17T23:16:49Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Absolutely, there are hundreds of years of precedence in British law for inheriting a peerage when your father died before your birth. . . . Cite a case, please, where the heir was granted his title before he was actually born. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/587 "2015-08-17T23:21:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Cite a case, please, where the heir was granted his title before he was actually born. I don’t think that’s what Dangerosa was suggesting. Rather, that the passing of the title is paused until the pregnancy is resolved (ending with a live birth or not). It doesn’t just skip the fetus and move to the next in line. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/588 "2015-08-18T01:54:34Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Cite a case, please, where the heir was granted his title before he was actually born. Yeah, that was the whole “it isn’t granted to you until you are actually born” part of the post. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/589 "2015-08-18T01:59:48Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yeah, that was the whole “it isn’t granted to you until you are actually born” part of the post. Okay, my apologies, that wasn’t clear to me. I’m actually astonished that they would do this for a pregnancy. Like, Daddums has popped off, I’m the eldest daughter, and am next to inherit, except that mumsie is in the family way, and if she drops a boy, then he is next to inherit… By Basingstoke, I’d be cheesed! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/590 "2015-08-18T12:20:29Z")
Just lie back and think of England, dearie. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/591 "2015-08-18T21:41:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Okay, my apologies, that wasn’t clear to me. > > I’m actually astonished that they would do this for a pregnancy. Like, Daddums has popped off, I’m the eldest daughter, and am next to inherit, except that mumsie is in the family way, and if she drops a boy, then he is next to inherit… By Basingstoke, I’d be cheesed! Imagine its stepmumsie (although unless you are Scottish, women generally couldn’t inherit peerages in Britain even if they are the only issue - it passes to an uncle, cousin, stepcousin - whomever is next in line with a penis), and you have the plot of many a poorly written romance novel. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/592 "2015-08-18T22:12:24Z")
Heh! Makings of a convoluted murder mystery, too! ---
**Author:** ![truthseeker3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e68b1a/32.png) [@truthseeker3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthseeker3)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/593 "2015-08-19T10:35:36Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Coming back to your question regarding the comatose brother: You are of course right in that it would not be ok to kill him. His coma does not change the fact that he is a human being. He has a personality and that personality has not yet ceased to exist. That means he has all the rights any of us have - including the right to live. > If the doctors had told me that he is braindead, the situation would be different. In that situation it would be morally defensible (even commendable) to use his liver as a donor organ, even though that would end the life of this remaining body. Please explain the difference between personality and potential/magic. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326/594 "2015-08-19T10:57:08Z")
> [@truthseeker3](#): > > Please explain the difference between personality and potential/magic. I am about ready to leave this thread, because it starts to become repetitive. But I suppose there is always time to answer one last question (courtesy of Merriam-Webster): > [@](#): > > **personality** > the set of emotional qualities, ways of behaving, etc., that makes a person different from other people > > **potential** > capable of becoming real Personality describes something that \*is \*real. Potential does not. In case of your temporary coma example the personality of the patient exists. It is there in his brain. That is why I would not destroy it. In a fertilized egg no such thing exists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-be-changing-to-an-anti-abortion-pro-life-stance/727326.md?page=29)