# I think I may have just rewatched a racist ST:NG episode. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935 "2016-07-14T22:43:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/41 "2016-07-15T18:23:55Z")
> [@OffByOne](#): > > I got turned off of ST:NG from the very first episode, the premiere. > > At first, things were going OK, then I began to notice all of the commercial breaks. By the end of two hours, I felt like I had just watched three hours of commercials. One of the last things I watched in realtime on broadcast TV, and this was a large part of the reason. Jesus, they packed 'em in on that one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/42 "2016-07-15T18:43:39Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > **I think I may have just rewatched a racist ST:NG episode.** Was your first clue the way you pronounce that title, there? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/43 "2016-07-15T19:05:42Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > The early TNG episode [Code of Honor](http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Code_of_Honor_(episode)) is notorious for being racist. Yar is kidnapped by black savages and forced into a fight to the death. When I saw the thread title I was sure it would be able this episode. It is pretty bad. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/44 "2016-07-15T19:08:37Z")
If you really watch Star Trek carefully you’ll come to realize as I have that deep space nine is the only good series of the lot. It is the only one with character development and humans aren’t treated like robots fulfilling genes vision of perfect humanity. Seriously no human in Star Trek is allowed to have a character flaw because it didn’t match Gene’s vision. Heck he wouldn’t even allow an episode with a child grieving for his dead mother because he felt that in the future death is just accepted as a part of life. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/45 "2016-07-15T19:09:09Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > I’ve used that “By Any Other Name” reference before. I mean, a BLACK dude in a RED shirt and he makes it through the whole episode. Ever wonder if any of those other blocks littering the corridors of the _Enterprise_ got trodden on by accident? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/46 "2016-07-15T20:34:10Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > If you really watch Star Trek carefully you’ll come to realize as I have that deep space nine is the only good series of the lot. It is the only one with character development and humans aren’t treated like robots fulfilling genes vision of perfect humanity. Seriously no human in Star Trek is allowed to have a character flaw because it didn’t match Gene’s vision. Heck he wouldn’t even allow an episode with a child grieving for his dead mother because he felt that in the future death is just accepted as a part of life. Even if we grant this to be kind of true for the first two seasons of Next Generation, Gene’s sway is clearly ending after that. Look at… oh, say “Hollow Pursuits.” The central story is about a character flaw, and other characters’ reactions to it aren’t perfect either. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/47 "2016-07-15T20:42:55Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Ever wonder if any of those other blocks littering the corridors of the _Enterprise_ got trodden on by accident? :dubious: “Bitch turned me down.” \ “Didn’t salute snappily enough.” \ “Gave great head.” \ “Reported me to Star Fleet Human and Non-Human resources.” \ ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/48 "2016-07-15T20:50:45Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Even if we grant this to be kind of true for the first two seasons of Next Generation, Gene’s sway is clearly ending after that. Look at… oh, say “Hollow Pursuits.” The central story is about a character flaw, and other characters’ reactions to it aren’t perfect either. From what I’ve read, Gene’s writers were perpetually bitching about not being allowed to have intra-crew conflicts. “We can’t write without conflict!” Well, if you look at NASA astronauts you’ll notice the absolute last thing you want with your intrepid spacefarers is crew conflict. Personally I think if you can’t write a good story without having your characters all fighting maybe you suck as a writer. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/49 "2016-07-15T22:21:38Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > “Bitch turned me down.” \ > > “Didn’t salute snappily enough.” \ > > “Gave great head.” \ > > “Reported me to Star Fleet Human and Non-Human resources.” \ \ Oh, shit… **[WALKS AWAY WITH HANDS BEHIND HIS BACK, WHISTLING NONCHALANTLY AS HE STARES AT THE CEILING]** ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/50 "2016-07-15T22:26:41Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > If you really watch Star Trek carefully you’ll come to realize as I have that deep space nine is the only good series of the lot. I’ve seen episodes of \*\*\*DS9 \*\*\*only sporadically. The one time I tried binge watching it on-line, it seemed the biggest deal was deciding where on the station to set up the kindergarden, followed by Sisko agonizing over his wife’s death. I decided to put off binge watching the rest of the series until some much later date. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/51 "2016-07-15T22:34:37Z")
> [@OffByOne](#): > > I got turned off of ST:NG from the very first episode, the premiere. What?!? With great dialogue like _“… And it’s **beautiful**!”_ you were \*\*turned \*\ ***off**??? :dubious: I am shocked, **shocked**!!! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/52 "2016-07-15T23:29:07Z")
DS9 is not _meant_ for binge-watching. Watch the first few seasons one episode at a time the way God and Gene Roddenberry intended. Watch all multi-part episodes in a single sitting, but don’t binge until the final arc. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/53 "2016-07-15T23:30:49Z")
“Paaaiiin…” - Troi, Encounter at Farpoint. That’s writing! > [@levdrakon](#): > > From what I’ve read, Gene’s writers were perpetually bitching about not being allowed to have intra-crew conflicts. “We can’t write without conflict!” > > Well, if you look at NASA astronauts you’ll notice the absolute last thing you want with your intrepid spacefarers is crew conflict. > > Personally I think if you can’t write a good story without having your characters all fighting maybe you suck as a writer. To be fair, if you supposedly have progressed to the point the crew’s families are cruising about with them, then you’d have to think you no longer have the tightly run elite crew that is used in a c. AD2000 space station or even submarine. But conversely, 300 years of development of Crew Resource Management should itself mean your spacebeings function together smoothly without drama. Of course, Trek is not really about people of the 23rd/24th Century Earth – it’s about people of 1960s-2010s America in fancy pajamas. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/54 "2016-07-15T23:50:43Z")
Deep Space Nine is by far the best of the Trek series, but it’s not perfect either. “Let He Who is Without Sin…” and “Paradise” are two of its worst episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/55 "2016-07-16T01:06:19Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > From what I’ve read, Gene’s writers were perpetually bitching about not being allowed to have intra-crew conflicts. “We can’t write without conflict!” > > Well, if you look at NASA astronauts you’ll notice the absolute last thing you want with your intrepid spacefarers is crew conflict. > > Personally I think if you can’t write a good story without having your characters all fighting maybe you suck as a writer. Conflict =/= Fighting. Measure of a Man is the perfect example of this. Nobody is “fighting” with anyone, but conflict is central to the storyline. Roddenberry’s vision of the future was some sort of 1984 fairyland, where everyone agreed on “the truth”. Not just facts, but philosophical truth. Everyone was a lock-step Atheist Humanist. Not one Entrepreneur, Buddhist or even Libertarian or Socialist was seen even for a moment. Every one agreed on exactly how much control was allowed over human lives and who should exercise that control Nobody ever tried in the slightest to subvert or even question the system. Nobody believed there was a better way to do _anything_ and nobody had ever been done an injustice by the system and everyone from the First Mate to the canteen staff were perfectly happy with their lot in life. Even though thousands of people die on a regular basis on a typical starship, and entire planets get wiped out every couple of years, the entire population of the Federation all agree that they are living in the best of all possible worlds. Only the clearly identified villains have even the slightest grip that the Federation let their entire family die in horrible agony. Families break up on a regular basis, and nobody complains that they weren’t ready for the relationship to end. Nobody feels abandoned by their parents and so forth. Planets exist in the dark ages and billions of children are dying every year of preventable diseases. The Federation not only mandates this, it prevents other galactic civilisations from helping these planets because they are part of the Federation’s sphere of influence. And not one of the Federation’s bazillion citizens thinks this might be immoral I always found Star Trek quite bizarre. It’s such blatant totalitarian propaganda that it makes Starship Troopers look like a Hippy fantasy. There is massive scope for \*real \*science fiction in the conflict inherent in the Star Trek Federation. And by real Sci Fi I mean exploration of the real repercussions of the technology and social structure portrayed. But Roddenberry would never allow that because it would highlight the flaws in his dreamworld. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/56 "2016-07-16T01:15:07Z")
But again, Trek left Roddenberry behind, and there were conflict stories. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/57 "2016-07-16T06:43:13Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Been binging on Star Trek NG lately. Just finished watching season 1 and I am dumbfounded that I am just now realizing how bad it is. > > Now I’m on season 2, still bad but episode 2, “Where Silence Has Lease” (That’s the episode with the cloud face guy) gave me pause. Terrible writing in this episode. > > So the Enterprise manages to get itself stuck in a “nothing-hole”. They fecklessly try many ways to get out of this trap. > > At one point, Geordy says: “Keep the cheese, I just want out of the maze”. This remark went virtually noticed. > > Later on in the episode, Dr. Polaski says: “Rats in a maze!” of course this piques Picard’s interest as he asks for further explanation. To which she explains the obvious: “It’s like we’re test subjects in a lab experiment.” > > Well, duh! Geordy just pointed that out not more than 10 minutes ago! :smack: > > Second issue: > > The show starts off with Wesley at Navigation. And then for some reason, with out explanation, he is replaced by some black dude named Haskel. He is present just long enough for cloud face guy to mind fuck him and kill him off. > > And as soon as he dies, guess who’s siting back at navigation? Wesley! > > Okay, saying it’s racist may be a stretch. But good golly that is some really bad writting there! Isn’t there a scene where Cloudface shows that he’s been listening/mind reading/whatever by addressing each member of the bridge crew by name? He calls each person by their last name, but he calls LaForge “Geordie.” Always struck me as patronizing and borderline racist. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/58 "2016-07-16T06:49:48Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > To be fair, if you supposedly have progressed to the point the crew’s families are cruising about with them, then you’d have to think you no longer have the tightly run elite crew that is used in a c. AD2000 space station or even submarine. Children do not belong on a starship. It is against the Laws of Man and God. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/59 "2016-07-16T07:04:36Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > He calls each person by their last name, but he calls LaForge “Geordie.” Always struck me as patronizing and borderline racist. What always struck me as patronizing and borderline racist was that a lowly jay-gee whose prior experience was pushing buttons on the bridge suddenly found himself Chief Engineer of the Federation’s new flagship at the beginning of the second season. What, Affirmative Action is needed in the 24th century?!?\* :dubious: 😕 (Okay, if not “patronizing and borderline racist” then “even more unbelievable than the rest of the BS crap we saw during the series’ run.” :mad: ) \*Phew! There. I said it! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935/60 "2016-07-16T11:20:40Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I’m sure I’m just being nitpicky, but I kind of have a problem with Measure of a Man too. > > It had already been established that Star Fleet viewed Data as a sentient life form. > > He should have never had to go through that trial in the first place. The thing about this episode that bugs me is, wait, you allowed him to _join_ Starfleet of his won volition, but he can’t _leave_ of his own volition? It’s like it’s the Hotel California in space! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-i-may-have-just-rewatched-a-racist-st-ng-episode/759935.md?page=4)