# I think I'm going to cry. Whining, rage, and advice inside. (Hair related) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 14, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191 "2013-01-14T17:54:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/41 "2013-01-15T11:03:53Z")
The other thing you might do (if it comes down to it) is call Gay Jeremy, lay out the situation, and ask him who out there does hair almost as good as he does. There’s a good chance he knows someone. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/42 "2013-01-15T11:20:45Z")
The things you can learn on the Board amazes me. I’m not Black (though I played one on TV :p—as in, IAMAD but…) anyway, I have naturally curly hair. Really curly. Anybody remember Roseanneroseannadanna on SNL? That’s me in humidity. And I’m part Irish…WTF? Everytime I find a good stylist they leave. And I’m left wild-eyed, progressively growing three feet of snarled hair while I try to find another one. (The ones the leaving ones recommend never work out; they don’t care, they’re finally getting out and getting on with their lives!) Finding a decent stylist is harder than choosing a competent surgeon or passing a background check for a job. And I’m not even a girly-girl. I’m not (very) vain as long as my hair looks okay, okay? That’s all I ask. I’ve never thought of going to a black salon but there’s one in the neighborhood I’m going to try now. I think most cities are segregated with blurred, progressive strips (streets) in between. I’m not passing judgement here, just stating something I’ve seen. Maybe somebody at this new salon will restore my belief in humanity and not–for gawd’s sake—try to cut my hair while wet. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/43 "2013-01-15T15:05:41Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > … apparantly walking in and saying “I really need to look more professional than this; can you help?” isn’t the answer, lol. This is my explanation for why male stylists are generally better than female ones: they have the chutzpah to hear vague instructions like that and run with it, doing something they know will look good. A female stylist is more likely to get angry that she isn’t getting good directions, and passive-aggressively give you a half-assed cut. Also, and this is secondhand knowledge for me (straight hair here), a knowledgeable curly-hair stylist will cut the hair dry just like you say they should. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/44 "2013-01-15T16:53:47Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > This is my explanation for why male stylists are generally better than female ones: they have the chutzpah to hear vague instructions like that and run with it, doing something they know will look good. A female stylist is more likely to get angry that she isn’t getting good directions, and passive-aggressively give you a half-assed cut. And I have yet another, different explanation why male stylists are better (if indeed they are). Two reasons: 1. This is changing, but it’s still generally assumed that if you’re a guy doing women’s hair, you’re gay. This is still a huge deterrent for many gay guys, and even more so for straight guys. So it seems to me that a guy who wants to be a stylist has to be pretty committed to it, and pretty confident in his skills. Women, on the other hand, are assumed to be good at doing hair, to the point that it’s treated by many as a kind of backup plan: “My niece is having trouble at community college, so she’s dropping out and going to beauty school.” This is not at all to say that cutting hair is actually easy; not if you want to do it well. But I think a lot of women kind of fall into the profession when they’re not good at anything else - even if they’re not good at cutting hair, either. It doesn’t seem to me that there are nearly as many guys who just happen to wind up as a hairstylist. 2. This is also changing, but a lot of women still assume that only another woman will know how to do their hair, because she has to style her own, similar hair every day. They think, How can a guy, who just has to wash and go, and _maybe_ run some product through it, understand how to make long, feminine hair look good? And there’s probably some truth to this idea. This is why it tends to be black stylists who know how to do black hair, asian stylists who know how to do asian hair, and so on. They’re more intimately familiar with how that type of hair looks, moves, reacts to different treatments and products, and so on. So while female stylists can attract a lot of clients, even if they’re not that good, simply by virtue of being female, male stylists have to rely a little more on their clients telling their friends, “Trust me, he’s _really_ great!” And they have to actually _be_ great. But all that said, I’m not sure that male stylists actually _are_ necessarily better. I used to think so, and indeed my favorite stylist I’ve ever had was a guy. But I’d say that of the five _worst_ stylists I’ve ever had, three or four were also guys, including ones who were specifically recommended to me by friends. The second worst cut I ever had was from a guy my friend gushed about, telling me how she went in and said something vague like, “I want a new look; surprise me!” and he did his magic. So I tried the same thing, and magic failed to ensue. Just as you say, he seemed angry that he wasn’t getting good directions. The absolute worst, bar none, was from a guy who some coworkers had recommended. I went in with a picture of what I wanted - not a picture from a magazine with some style that would be impossible for me, but rather an actual photograph of me with this very haircut. I said, “I want it like this again, please.” He said, “No, that doesn’t suit you. Let me do something else.” He was so highly recommended that I agreed - and the result was absolutely awful. Not only was it a totally unflattering haircut that wasn’t at all my style, but it was really poorly executed. Plenty of chutzpah, but no skills. Cool story, me. Anyhoo, **MOL** , I’m hoping it works out for you at the other salon. If not, I’ve had to switch stylists within a salon, and I always do the schedule-conflict thing as recommended here, for plausible deniability. Of course, in my case, it helps that I only have the time and money to get my hair done once or twice a year, so I don’t think anyone cries about losing me. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/45 "2013-01-15T16:57:58Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Funniest fucking thing I’ve read all week! > > MOL - Chicago isn’t that bad. I swear we’re pretty nice in Chicago. I honestly had no idea. But then I’m usually the last to find out anything of significance. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/46 "2013-01-15T20:41:15Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Well, the city couldn’t do it legally but the lenders and insurance companies did it through redlining and the Chicago Real Estate Board did it through racial-deed restrictions, which Dr King came here to protest. > > [The Early History of Segregation in Chicago – Chicago Magazine](http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/June-2012/The-Early-History-of-Segregation-in-Chicago/) Yeah, I was gonna say calling it a history of “self-segregation” is being a bit generous. In answer to your earlier question, I’m far NW. There are six black people up here. > [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The second worst cut I ever had was from a guy my friend gushed about, telling me how she went in and said something vague like, “I want a new look; surprise me!” and he did his magic. So I tried the same thing, and magic failed to ensue. Huh, funnily, my favorite stylist worked his scissors magic based on shaky instructions. I told him that I \*needed \*short hair, but I unfortunately didn’t look good with anything shorter than shoulder length. He said he’ll make it look right, started chopping away, et voila, I had a fantastic short hair cut that actually looked good on my face. The man was a genius, I tells ya! > [@Chefguy](#): > > I honestly had no idea. But then I’m usually the last to find out anything of significance. I didn’t know Chicagoans were nice either. No, no, I keed. I kid Chicago. It’s terrific. But anyway, my hair! It’s… pretty good. Shiny, soft, nice bounce, not over-processed unlike what _somebody_ used to do to it, good price. Scissors work isn’t as good as Gay Jeremy’s, but it works. Definitely a vast improvement over what I was used to, and is only $10 more. All in all, I’m very glad that I spent all of this time suffering, carefully poring through every review of every salon north of downtown in order to find a new and better stylist. May I never have to go through this again. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/47 "2013-01-15T21:29:46Z")
Advice from a stylist I know: To find a good stylist, approach a woman who has a great hair style and ask the name of her stylist. Don’t just ask for the name of the salon, but get the name of a specific person. Obviously if you’ve got geographically unusual hair, that makes it harder to find a good person to ask. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/48 "2013-01-15T21:37:45Z")
Yeah, I’m all about asking people who their stylist is, but it’ll be 2014 before I see another black woman, and 2015 before I find one whose hair I like. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/49 "2013-01-16T00:42:44Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I didn’t know Chicagoans were nice either. No, no, I keed. I kid Chicago. It’s terrific. But you don’t _write_ like a black person! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/50 "2013-01-16T02:47:40Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > In answer to your earlier question, I’m far NW. Oh, fuck! Don’t let the Poles or Russians anywhere near your hair! I gave one Russian woman my usual clearly-defined and strict instructions (“I don’t know. Shorter and respectable, I guess.”) and I left the shop looking like Boris fucking Yeltsin. Central and Eastern Europeans can’t cut hair. Italians, OTOH… [/casual ethnic slurs and stereotypes, though there’s a thread there about doctors and lawyers] ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/51 "2013-01-16T03:25:56Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > Advice from a stylist I know: > To find a good stylist, approach a woman who has a great hair style and ask the name of her stylist. Don’t just ask for the name of the salon, but get the name of a specific person. > > Obviously if you’ve got geographically unusual hair, that makes it harder to find a good person to ask. Unless your hair is super curly, in which case they’ll treat you like you’re asking to steal their babysitter. I feel the OP’s pain because I’ve just moved here and my hair is getting way too long but I’m not about to start winging it at random salons. Is it really ok for a white girl with crazy hair to go in begging at a black salon? That sounds like a dopey question, but I’ve always wondered if that’s where I’ll finally find my good hair. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/52 "2013-01-16T04:40:35Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Oh, fuck! Don’t let the Poles or Russians anywhere near your hair! I gave one Russian woman my usual clearly-defined and strict instructions (“I don’t know. Shorter and respectable, I guess.”) and I left the shop looking like Boris fucking Yeltsin. Central and Eastern Europeans can’t cut hair. Italians, OTOH… > > [/casual ethnic slurs and stereotypes, though there’s a thread there about doctors and lawyers] Oh god, no! I’d never let the Poles anywhere near my locks! I doubt they’d even know what I was talking about if I asked, anyway. I looked around Logan Squarish fir some non-Polish salons, hoping someone would be able to help, but no. > [@moejoe](#): > > Is it really ok for a white girl with crazy hair to go in begging at a black salon? Yes. I mean, you don’t have to beg, but if you ask them to tame your mane, they will and will do a great job. Just stay away from the super ghetto salons. Not that they can’t fix your hair, but they’ll take a lunch break in the middle of doing your hair, and might have to stop to pick up their kids from school. Not even kidding. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/53 "2013-01-16T05:18:44Z")
Whenever I go to a woman hairstylist and ask her to use her judgment, she cuts my hair exactly like hers is. Even if I say I don’t want more than 2 inches cut off, I still end up with whatever haircut she’s got. So now, I try to see either someone with long hair so I don’t get butchered, or a man. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/54 "2013-01-16T16:55:34Z")
I’m glad your hair turned out well. A black stylist once described my hair as “Barbie doll hair.” Apparently, she used to practice on Barbie dolls and said mine has the exact same slippery texture. I’ve had the same trouble you’ve had, trying to find a good stylist. My hair is dead straight in the front and curly in the back. It’s really difficult to find someone with the cutting skills to make that all look like it goes together on the same head. I finally found a girl – who also has what appears to be Barbie hair – and it took me about three appointments to get her trained right. Now she knows exactly what to do with it and how to cut it so the straight blends with the curly and doesn’t look like I have tired curly extensions in the back. So my advice was: keep going back and give this new stylist a few chances. Give very specific feedback about how you felt about the last cut. The new stylist may be trainable. Lots of people can do color or styling, but I think the _real_ skill is being able to give someone a great cut that grows out well. If this person still can’t hack it (lol, sorry, unintended) after maybe three appointments, then the search continues. So recently, I decided it was time to cover the gray. Now, my second job (teaching fitness) has a full-service salon in the front of the house. Yes, ladies, you can get your workout on, get your hair did, your nails did, _and_ get a tattoo all in one shop! (I know, it’s weird.) Anyway, the stylists that the owner hires are all young kids straight out of Aveda school. 1. They all do the same hairstyle on everyone, over and over. I do not want to look like all the other girls, especially because most of our clientele is college girls and I am twice their age. 2. Their color work leaves most clients looking decidedly stripey. I did not want stripes. I just wanted to cover the gray, right? Now I get an employee discount of 50% if I use the salon at the fitness studio. Not me, man. I wasn’t having it. I paid full price, went to my girl, got a tinted gloss (it’s a rinse, not a dye) and now the gray is covered, I still have my pretty natural hair colors, and it’s all shiny and sparkly now. But then I was faced with the idea of having to go back to the studio and have all the stylists be all “Why didn’t you let one of us do that?” (Because you guys are horrible stylists until you have a few more years of experience, m’kay?) So I was really sweating the inevitable confrontations when we re-opened after the holiday shut down. It turns out my girl did such an awesome job, they can’t even tell anything has been done, so nobody has said a word to me. Yea! I’m delighted that they haven’t even noticed the gray is gone – the change is very subtle and that’s what I wanted. Something so non-drastic as to be unnoticeable unless I mention it. So I haven’t had to break it to any of my co-workers that I don’t trust them to touch my Barbie doll hair. Going to my tried-and-true girl was worth every single stinkin’ penny. The moral to the story: when you find someone, Facebook her/him, get their personal phone number and track them to the ends of the earth in the event they ever change salons. I would follow my girl anywhere and would be heartbroken if she moved to another city. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/55 "2013-01-16T20:24:35Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > Unless your hair is super curly, in which case they’ll treat you like you’re asking to steal their babysitter. I feel the OP’s pain because I’ve just moved here and my hair is getting way too long but I’m not about to start winging it at random salons. Is it really ok for a white girl with crazy hair to go in begging at a black salon? That sounds like a dopey question, but I’ve always wondered if that’s where I’ll finally find my good hair. I should probably do that, too. I have a co-worker with similar, long hair, and went to her stylist. And, after verifying I just wanted two inches cut off, for health, and a more professional style, she proceeded to give me a pixie cut. I am not shitting you. I am blind without my glasses, and was unaware of exactly what she was doing until it was too late. The look even on HER face was one of horror. I couldn’t believe what she’d done. My friend didn’t believe it. I am not sure the stylist herself knew wtf just happened. But I haven’t had a haircut since, lol. Yeah, I need one, and a STYLE…but if I haven’t found a solution by now, age 46, then screw it. BTW, I got some coconut oil and do like how it works on my hair, thanks! Doesn’t do anything for my skin, but was also great for the stir-fry last night. :p:p ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/56 "2013-01-16T20:47:45Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Can you elaborate on this. It sounds strange and wrong to me 😕 I think I’ve recommended this book before, but [Arc of Justice](http://www.amazon.com/Arc-Justice-Civil-Rights-Murder/dp/0805079335/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358369155&sr=8-1&keywords=arc+of+justice) is a decent read on segregated neighborhoods in American history. It’s about a Black doctor who moved into an all-White neighborhood (as I’m pretty sure you can guess, it didn’t end well). It uses Detroit as the case study, but what happened there happened in many other large cities. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/57 "2013-01-16T20:57:55Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Yeah, I’m all about asking people who their stylist is, but it’ll be 2014 before I see another black woman, and 2015 before I find one whose hair I like. Have you tried posting the question on a local Yelp forum or something similar? That might be what I’d do. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/58 "2013-01-16T21:41:35Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Have you tried posting the question on a local Yelp forum or something similar? That might be what I’d do. Angie’s list. I just reviewed my stylist on that site. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/59 "2013-01-17T00:36:10Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > who do I have to fuck around here to find a good salon that I don’t have to travel to the other side of the Earth to get to? > [@Giraffe](#): > > There is definitely no non-awkward way to do this, any more than there is a non-awkward way to break up with someone and then have sex with someone else on their couch the next day. So you’re saying she has to fuck her new stylist on her old stylist’s couch? Or… something like that? I’m so confused. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191/60 "2013-01-17T16:34:06Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Have you tried posting the question on a local Yelp forum or something similar? That might be what I’d do. Yelp has asked this question a godzillion times with unsatisfactory results, including repeated recs for my last stylist. I ended up just compiling a list of salons that did what I wanted, closed my eyes and picked one, explained very carefully to the new lady what my issue was with the old broad, and hoped she listened. She did. Yay! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-going-to-cry-whining-rage-and-advice-inside-hair-related/647191.md?page=4)