# I think I'm turning Nipponese, I think I'm turning Nipponese, I really think so. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2001, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157 "2001-08-26T03:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/1 "2001-08-26T03:54:07Z")
Why do I occasionally see Japan refered to as Nippon? Most notably in the book “Snow Crash”, but I have seen it elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/2 "2001-08-26T03:59:36Z")
That’s what they call it in Japan. You wanna know what the French call France? La France. You wanna know what the French call a Big Mac? Me neither. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/3 "2001-08-26T04:14:48Z")
> [@](#): > > You wanna know what the French call a Big Mac? No, but now I do. If I had to guess, I’d say that it’s probably just a “Big Mac”, since a “Happy Meal” is still evidently a “Happy Meal”– [http://www.paris-anglo.com/guide/entertainment/eatdrink/resto\_fast.html](http://www.paris-anglo.com/guide/entertainment/eatdrink/resto_fast.html) > [@](#): > > and at lunchtime it’s often nearly impossible to get into one of these places, especially on Wednesdays, when there is no school, and school children line up for their “Happy Meal.” –and a McFlurry is evidently just a “McFlurry”. [http://pages.prodigy.com/haunted/paris.htm](http://pages.prodigy.com/haunted/paris.htm) > [@](#): > > . Interestingly, you will find a few menu additions in France- McMarins- which are fish sticks,and McFlurry’s which are really good! I know, it sounds like Debbie thinks McFlurrys are a “French” thing. She says the brasseries are “cute”, and very kindly explains that “escargots” means “snails”. But she’s not an adventurous eater, she admits it herself. She went to a “cute” brasserie and ordered a plate of fries. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/4 "2001-08-26T04:14:53Z")
And Germans call Germany Deutschland. I believe the name Japan was originally a bad attempt to spell something that sounds somewhere between Nippon and Nihon. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/5 "2001-08-26T04:16:59Z")
As wishbone said Nippon (or Nihon - literally Sun Root/Origin - ie, Land of the Rising Sun) is the Japanese word for Japan. I rarely hear it used in English conversation (and Nipponese I’ve never heard outside of anything set after WWII), though… Was the character in Snow Crash Japanese himself? ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/6 "2001-08-26T04:22:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tengu \* > \*\*As wishbone said Nippon (or Nihon - literally Sun Root/Origin - ie, Land of the Rising Sun) is the Japanese word for Japan. > > I rarely hear it used in English conversation (and Nipponese I’ve never heard outside of anything set after WWII), though… > > Was the character in Snow Crash Japanese himself? \*\* Half Nipponese, half black. It was an incredible book, considered one of the last great cyberpunk novels. Hehe, I am going to go out of my way to say Nipponese now. If only to sound superior when people ask me why I am doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/7 "2001-08-26T04:29:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > You wanna know what the French call a Big Mac? > > No, but now I do. > > If I had to guess, I’d say that it’s probably just a “Big Mac”, since a “Happy Meal” is still evidently a “Happy Meal”– > \*\* "Vincent Vega: And you know what they call a … a … a Quarter Pounder with cheese in Paris? Jules: They don’t call it a Quarter Pounder with cheese? Vincent Vega: No man, they got the metric system. They wouldn’t know what the f\*ck a Quarter Pounder is. Jules: Then what do they call it? Vincent Vega: They call it a “Royale” with cheese. Jules: A “Royale” with cheese! What do they call a Big Mac? Vincent Vega: A Big Mac’s a Big Mac, but they call it “le Big-Mac”. Jules: “Le Big-Mac”! Ha ha ha ha! What do they call a Whopper? Vincent Vega: I dunno, I didn’t go into Burger King." ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/8 "2001-08-26T04:30:42Z")
To quote the trusty [_American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_](http://www.bartleby.com/61/) on the etymology of the word [Japan](http://www.bartleby.com/61/67/J0016700.html): > [@](#): > > Stamp collectors know that _Nihon_ and _Nippon_ on Japanese stamps mean “Japan”; what they probably don’t know is that _Nihon_, _Nippon_, and _Japan_ are all ultimately the same word. In the early part of the Chinese Tang dynasty—in a.d. 670, to be precise—Japanese scholars who had studied Chinese created a new name for their country using the Chinese phrase for “origin of the sun, sunrise,” because Japan is located east of China. In the Chinese of the time (called Middle Chinese), the phrase was _nzyet-pwun_. To this the scholars added the Chinese suffix –_kwuk_, “country,” yielding a compound _nzyet-pwun-kwuk_, “sun-origin-country, land of the rising sun.” The consonant clusters in the word were not pronounceable in Old Japanese, so the form was simplified to _Nip-pon-gu_ or \*_Ni-pon-gu_, the latter developing by regular sound change to _Ni-hon-gu_. The forms _Nippon_ and _Nihon_ of today are the same as these, minus the “country” suffix. Interestingly, the Chinese themselves took to calling Japan by the name that the Japanese had invented, and it is from the Chinese version of the name that English _Japan_ is ultimately derived. In Mandarin Chinese, one of the forms of Chinese to develop from Middle Chinese, the phrase evolved to _Rìbenguó_, an early form of which was recorded by Marco Polo as _Chipangu_, which he would have pronounced as (chi-pän-goo) or (shi-pän-goo). The early Mandarin word was borrowed into Malay as _Japang_, which was encountered by Portuguese traders in Moluccas in the 16th century. These traders may have been the ones to bring the word to Europe; it is first recorded in English in 1577, spelled _Giapan_. And DDG: It’s “Le Big Mac”. But, a “Quarter Pounder with Cheese” is called a “Royale with Cheese.” 'Cause of the metric system. [sub]Of course, my source for that is a character played by John Travolta, not a proper Google search.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![fandango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5ac83/32.png) [@fandango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fandango)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/9 "2001-08-26T04:31:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > \*\*And Germans call Germany Deutschland. > > I believe the name Japan was originally a bad attempt to spell something that sounds somewhere between Nippon and Nihon. \*\* Actually it is more likely from the Chinese name for Japan, which in Pin Yin is “Ri Ben” …the R in Chinese sounds like a weird cross between a retroflex a and a retroflex J. Ri means sun, and Ben means something too, but can’t remember right now (besides it being a measure word for books.) ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/10 "2001-08-26T04:32:25Z")
Dammit, wishbone! By one minute! Now I’m gonna have to get medieval on your ass. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/11 "2001-08-26T05:11:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually it is more likely from the Chinese name for Japan, which in Pin Yin is “Ri Ben” …the R in Chinese sounds like a weird cross between a retroflex a and a retroflex J. Actually, you’re probably even closer than you thought, as the name Japan would certainly precede Pin Yin, and have been rendered in English using the older Wade-Giles system, wherein, I believe, it would have been a J. Also, I think the name Peking was merely the Wade-Giles rendering of what we now call (using Pin Yin) Beijing. I can’t figure out how to cross a J with an R myself. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/12 "2001-08-26T10:33:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Actually it is more likely from the Chinese name for Japan, which in Pin Yin is “Ri Ben” …the R in Chinese sounds like a weird cross between a retroflex a and a retroflex J. > > Actually, you’re probably even closer than you thought, as the name Japan would certainly precede Pin Yin, and have been rendered in English using the older Wade-Giles system, wherein, I believe, it would have been a J. Also, I think the name Peking was merely the Wade-Giles rendering of what we now call (using Pin Yin) Beijing. > > I can’t figure out how to cross a J with an R myself. \*\* Nippon is a Japanese word written in Chinese characters. It’s a word that the Japanese refer to Japan as, that’s why you see it occaisionally. Just like you would see Germany referred to as Deutscheland. While it may be based originally on Chinese (yes you have the correct characters, although a Japanese passport says “ri ben guo” on the cover and the extro “guo” means “country”) it has become a Japanese word. Yes, a lot of Japanese words have roots in Chinese but they are from at least hundreds of years ago and the seafaring Chinese probably didn’t speak standard Mandarin. Christ, the majority of people in China TODAY can’t speak anywhere close to textbook proper Mandarin. So, with all due respect to your Chinese language skills, Nippon is not from “ri ben” no matter what Chinese romanization system you want to use. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/13 "2001-08-26T18:53:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by China Guy \* > \*\*Nippon is not from “ri ben” no matter what Chinese romanization system you want to use. \*\* ‘Japan’ however, might be, which MEBuckner’s cite agrees with. I’m assuming, of course, that that’s what water2j and fandango are saying. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/14 "2001-08-26T19:19:13Z")
What, nobody’s pointed out that “Big Mac” was originally tranliterated as _“Gros Mec”,_ and later renamed because it was _“Gros Mec”_ was already low french slang for “Big Pimp”? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/15 "2001-08-26T19:21:13Z")
Oh, right… preview. Ideally, that should read: What, nobody’s pointed out that “Big Mac” was originally tranliterated as _“Gros Mec”_, and later renamed because _“Gros Mec”_ was already low french slang for “Big Pimp”? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/16 "2001-08-26T21:42:57Z")
Actually, the Kanji on a Japanese passport are read as “Nihon Goku\*.” \*Can also be rendered in Romaji as “Nippon Koku.” The Japanese use many Chinese characters but assign them their own pronunciations, some of which are based on Chinese pronunciation & some of which are not. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/17 "2001-08-26T21:45:47Z")
Check out the big brain on **wishbone**! ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/18 "2001-08-26T23:58:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tengu \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by China Guy \* > > \*\*Nippon is not from “ri ben” no matter what Chinese romanization system you want to use. \*\* > > ‘Japan’ however, might be, which MEBuckner’s cite agrees with. > > I’m assuming, of course, that that’s what water2j and fandango are saying. \*\* Yes, exactly. The word “Japan” seems to have come from the Chinese word(s) “ri ben gu”. I was pointing out that if you use older methods of latinizing this phrase, it makes even more sense, as I believe that the R would become a J and the B a P (I think the G becomes a K, but that part is left off, so it doesn’t really matter). When have we ever concerned ourselves with what the people _in_ a country call it? Aside from those who pronounce Mexico “Mehico”. I remember a SNL skit a while back making fun of this trend among news reporters, extending it to “Los Angles” with a hard g and “burrito” with excessively rolled r’s. But that really has no bearing on the term Nipponese. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/19 "2001-08-27T00:10:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \* > \*\*Hehe, I am going to go out of my way to say Nipponese now. > > If only to sound superior when people ask me why I am doing it. \*\* I don’t think that’s a good idea. The pronunciation “Nihon” is favoured now as “Nippon” is associated with 30s and 40s militarism. In addition many Japanese are sensitive to possible slurs and may assume you are trying to insult them in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2001, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157/20 "2001-08-27T00:26:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > \*\*Check out the big brain on **wishbone**! \*\* Which “brain” were you referring to? …I’ll take that as a compliment. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-think-im-turning-nipponese-i-really-think-so/78157.md?page=2)