# I think I've identified a new genre **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 5, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927 "2009-09-05T01:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/61 "2009-09-08T11:56:46Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Seconded. If I admit that I love this thread, does that make me a “Mantasist”? Not that there’s anything wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/62 "2009-09-08T16:06:49Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Actually, after thinking about it for another, er, six minutes, I actually agree that there is such a thing as a Man Fantasy based on the definition given upthread, but I think most of the nominees in this thread don’t qualify. Movies that would qualify would be: > > Comic book movies > The Matrix trilogy > Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon > Shoot Em Up > Old Shao Lin Monk movies from the 70s that ran on Saturdays late morning / early afternoon after cartoons > > Movies like Crank are totally, 100% believable in comparison to movies like the above, where humans can friggin fly, or stop bullets with their mind. I’m going with the OP on this one. There are certain action movies that are just MANtastic. I would say mantasy movies are not just action, but include mancentric comedy like Old School, The Hangover and 40 Year Old Virgin and hiest films like Oceans Eleven and The Italian Job. The think the key factor is that we men must be able to place ourselves in the role of the protagonist. Kind of the way women always see themselves as Bridget Jones or Carrie Bradshaw in those films. For example, the Matrix films, Crouching Tiger, and the Shao Lin movies, while certainly good movies, aren’t really “mantasy”. Matrix is too sci fi and Crouching Tiger is too artsy and foreign. Also it’s a period piece. Saving Private Ryan would not be a mantasy film because while it is an awesome film, there is no way in hell I would want to be anywhere near Omaha Beach after seeing that. Films with a chick protagonist (ass-kicking chick films) are not mantastic. They are great to watch, but since the man is not placing himself in the main character’s role, it’s not man fantasy. So Kill Bill, Resident Evil, Charlie’s Angels and so on, you’re out. Shoot Em Up is spot-on. In the spirit of the OP, here are some other man fantasy action films: Bad Boys 1 and 2 Scarface Goodfellas Casino The Rock Con Air Armegeddon Death Race God of War Blow Under Seige True Romance Reservoir Dogs Pulp Fiction The Bourne films Batman films (not Superman though because he has super powers) Gladiator > [@SenorBeef](#): > > I don’t think Taken belongs in there. Did the protagonist do anything that was really stretching belief? He was just a Pissed Off Bad Ass. Oh you mean other than single handedly taking down a Russian sex slave trafficing syndicate in 48 hours?😃 ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/63 "2009-09-08T18:12:09Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I would say mantasy movies are not just action, but include mancentric comedy like Old School, The Hangover and 40 Year Old Virgin and hiest films like Oceans Eleven and The Italian Job. I don’t know what it says about me, but my girlfriend liked all of the above more than I did. I think this genre exists, but I think it’s getting defined too broadly. I don’t think it works to say they’re just movies where you want to be the protagonist (Mary Sue with a Y-chromosome?). I think that’s what MOST “manly” movies are about, everything from Bond to Bloodsport to Beverly Hills Cop to Die Hard. And Bond, Die Hard, Commando – these are the archetypal films of the existing “Action” genre. If you include stuff like this, you’re just renaming the genre for 95% of what gets called “action.” And “Man Fantasy” can’t simply be “stuff that couldn’t really happen,” because that’s just a genre convention for action (and movies in general). In fact, it’s such a common genre convention that I think “realistic action movies” could be seen as a small subgenre. But I definitely see a genre tie between Crank, Transporter, Shoot 'em Up, Wanted, etc. I’m having trouble exactly defining it – they all seem to be about characters with implicit superpowers that go beyond being “really good” at something. They’re not quite mortals. And, while I’m here, I’m going to nominate Carpenter’s “Escape” movies. Or, at least, “Escape from LA.” If Snake’s “one man nuclear submarine” scene doesn’t escalate him into the realm of Mantasy, I don’t know what could. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/64 "2009-09-08T19:30:56Z")
What about _Equilibrium_? Guy lead - check. Unbelievable martial arts - check. Guns - check. Gun martial arts - check. Cool wardrobe - check. Hot chicks - okay, a little thin. Bond as it started was just Action, but certainly Bond as it went on, especially with Roger Moore and later with Pierce Brosnan, have to be included. I would think _Charlie’s Angels_ movies fit. No, they aren’t men in the lead roles, but otherwise they fit in completely. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/65 "2009-09-08T20:57:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > …Films with a chick protagonist (ass-kicking chick films) are not mantastic. They are great to watch, but since the man is not placing himself in the main character’s role, it’s not man fantasy. … Maybe men aren’t imagining putting themselves into the _role_ of the main chick character, but they are imagining putting themsleves _into_ the main chick character, so to speak. Different fantasy, but still a fantasy. More of a _Taming of the Shew_ fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/66 "2009-09-08T22:10:49Z")
One of the reasons I think **Taken** fits in reasonably well is that there is never any doubt about the eventual triumph. It’s not a movie about a guy fighting to save his daughter; it’s a movie about a guy who simply goes and kicks the asses of the people who took his daughter. Not once does she ever seem to be at risk (except maybe at the very start before you know what kind of movie it is). That may be considered another trait: Either the plot is ridiculously baroque, or utterly straightforward. In both cases the audience doesn’t need to care about it. Both are fairly predictable as well (despite bizarre twists, it’s not usually the sort that completely changes your perspective of the characters or events). I’d say the distinction is such that the Bourne movies are _outside_ the genre. They’re much more Action. One could point out a fair number of traits in common, but the Bourne movies are not pure fantasy; the strongest fantasy element is the sense of elitism, that some people are just far better trained/gifted and the ‘extras’ around them don’t matter so much. The women are not just sex objects, even if they’re perhaps less effective than the hero. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/67 "2009-09-08T22:38:33Z")
I agree on the whole with this new genre, the only ones I’d dispute are the “Comic Book” movies- because those fall within their own realm of films- namely the “Superhero” genre. A Mantasy seems to be the generic badass that happens to be able to take on anything and survive, and he didn’t need no radioactive spider or sissy traumatic experience to make him into said badass. The only other thing is- the WWE film “Condemned” that one straddles the line- because that film basically was the Japanese film “Battle Royale” but changed to fit into an American Audiences viewpoint (change the concept from 14 year old children fighting to the death on an island w/ exploding collars to “Hardened criminals fighting to the death on an island with exploding leg collars”). So \*Condemned \*I’d put more of as less Mantasy (Plus, let’s not forget it’s ironic “take a look at what we’ve become” morality ending that surprised even me) and more into just taking a badass foreign film and saccharinizing it for Western Audiences. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/68 "2009-09-08T22:45:44Z")
How about 24? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/69 "2009-09-08T23:13:06Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Maybe men aren’t imagining putting themselves into the _role_ of the main chick character, but they are imagining putting themsleves _into_ the main chick character, so to speak. Huh. When I was Buffy, I don’t actually find her that appealing as fantasy material (now Willow on the other hand…mmmm…what was I saying again?) But the role of slaying vampires, having superhuman speed and strength and grace, is pretty appealing to me, pretty ninjatastic. Is that maybe because I’m not highly gendered, maybe–that is, on a list of things that I think identify me, my sex is pretty low on the list? On the other hand, **Reservoir Dogs** doesn’t fit the category for a couple of reasons. First, although I’ve only seen it once, I don’t remember that much about the action that was unrealistic–nobody did anything especially impossible, IIRC. Second, who the hell fantasizes about being in the role of any of those characters? I mean, Jesus. I wonder whether a certain self-conscious wink at the audience is a part of the genre, a sense that it’s all a big joke that you’re letting the audience in on. Certainly I got that sense from **Die Hard**. ---
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/70 "2009-09-08T23:34:18Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > How about 24? Oh, definitely. I’d also add _Face/Off_ to the list. ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Say\_Dice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee59a6/32.png) [@Never\_Say\_Dice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Say_Dice)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/71 "2009-09-09T00:06:45Z")
Man fantasies are those where all the characters have teeny tiny heads. That’s how you make people strong and stupid, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/72 "2009-09-09T01:38:38Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > What about _Equilibrium_? Guy lead - check. Unbelievable martial arts - check. Guns - check. Gun martial arts - check. Cool wardrobe - check. Hot chicks - okay, a little thin. My only problems with Equilibrium is that it has an actual plot (admittedly it’s like a Golden Books version of 1984) and that it’s a little bit too sci-fi. The portrayal of the protagonist definitely fits, though. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/73 "2009-09-09T01:42:41Z")
> [@panamajack](#): > > I’d say the distinction is such that the Bourne movies are _outside_ the genre. They’re much more Action. One could point out a fair number of traits in common, but the Bourne movies are not pure fantasy; the strongest fantasy element is the sense of elitism, that some people are just far better trained/gifted and the ‘extras’ around them don’t matter so much. The women are not just sex objects, even if they’re perhaps less effective than the hero. The Bourne movies also try really hard to feel grounded in possible reality. Bourne himself is an ubermensch, but he’s more of an ubermensch within the boundaries of plausibility. Looking over the list of movies I really see as part of the genre, I think a common moment is one in which the main character does something _incredibly_ stupid that would ABSOLUTELY never work, but it works out fine BECAUSE he’s so awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/74 "2009-09-09T02:14:30Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > The only really unrealistic thing in the movie was the “computer, enhance!” digital photo kiosk. How about the bodies piling up in Paris without the protagonist’s face being plastered all over every news outlet and being subject to a nationwide manhunt? You just don’t shoot up that many people in Europe without the shit hitting the fan. Let’s not forget the protagonist walking into a room full of people and going all Bruce Lee on them. Odesio ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927/75 "2009-09-09T02:52:36Z")
Oh, that was prefessional courtesy, among commandos. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ive-identified-a-new-genre/508927.md?page=3)