# I think my daughter is going to get proposed to tonight... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 22, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484 "2011-10-22T23:34:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/61 "2011-10-24T18:35:07Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > And hell yeah, it’s patriachical, and there’s nothing wrong with that. More nonsense: there’s a TON wrong with that attitude. > [@](#): > > Most good parents talk to each other about who their daughter’s are dating and whether they have reservations about the guy. If a dad doesn’t know what mom thinks of daughter’s boyfriend, then shame on him. He should be in a position to represent both parent’s POV. So turn it around: if a mom doesn’t know what dad thinks of a daughter’s boyfriend, then shame on her. And if a mom doesn’t know what dad thinks of a son’s girlfriend, then shame on her. And if a dad doesn’t know what mom thinks of a daughter’s boyfriend, then shame on him. And that’s just keeping it straight :). But why is the mom never the person talked to? And why is it the boy, not the girl, who does the talking? It’s tradition, sure. It’s a sexist, patronizing, patriarchal tradition that sucks ass. Traditions aren’t inherently bad; I love my Thanksgiving pumpkin pie as much as the next schmuck, and I’ll wear a tie on important work occasions without protesting. But just as traditions aren’t automatically suspect, nor are they automatically sacrosanct. When they suck ass, they suck ass, and admit it. > [@](#): > > And any dude that doesn’t talk to his own parents about popping the question on his girlfriend, doesn’t have a real good relationship with his own parents and his girlfriend probably doesn’t either. More bluster without reason. Any more totally unsupported sweeping pronouncements you’d care to make about other people’s relationships? We’re all agog. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > There’s no rule. But you got turned down…enough said. No, not enough said. You got something else to say? Doubtless if you actually expressed it, even you would see how stupid it was. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/62 "2011-10-24T18:38:07Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Way too much political correctness for me. There’s something to be said for tradition. And hell yeah, it’s patriachical, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Most good parents talk to each other about who their daughter’s are dating and whether they have reservations about the guy. If a dad doesn’t know what mom thinks of daughter’s boyfriend, then shame on him. He should be in a position to represent both parent’s POV. And any dude that doesn’t talk to his own parents about popping the question on his girlfriend, doesn’t have a real good relationship with his own parents and his girlfriend probably doesn’t either. Thank Christ things don’t work this way anymore. Edit: And demanding that people following tradition simply for tradition’s sake is stupid. More so when the tradition itself is a sexist joke. Edit 2: Yes, there is something wrong with you assuming that everyone buys into your patriarchy garbage. Not only are you displaying your sexism but you’re maligning everyone who doesn’t share your outdated beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/63 "2011-10-24T18:38:43Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > There are some crazy ass relationships That does create problems and is normally an indicator of behavior your future potential spouse will exhibit. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/64 "2011-10-24T18:41:44Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Way too much political correctness for me. There’s something to be said for tradition. And hell yeah, it’s patriachical, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Most good parents talk to each other about who their daughter’s are dating and whether they have reservations about the guy. If a dad doesn’t know what mom thinks of daughter’s boyfriend, then shame on him. He should be in a position to represent both parent’s POV. And any dude that doesn’t talk to his own parents about popping the question on his girlfriend, doesn’t have a real good relationship with his own parents and his girlfriend probably doesn’t either. Wow. So now it’s political correctness to find out what the girl wants? Because you know, at no point do you even say that it might be a good idea to find out if the girl subscribes to this archaic nonsense, except for the exceptions where the girl and dad don’t get along. Put it this way: if my guy asked my dad first, I’d feel he knew me and respected me so little, he certainly wouldn’t deserve to marry me. I never follow tradition merely for the sake of tradition. Never ever. Justify it, give me a reason, and I probably will, but not just because. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/65 "2011-10-24T18:42:39Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Thank Christ things don’t work this way anymore. Depends on who you date. But seriously, if a girl you were head over heels in love with, told you that it wasn’t necessarily a big deal to her, but it would mean a lot to her dad if you talked to him before you proposed…you would say “fuck that”? Or would you do it just because she asked you to? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/66 "2011-10-24T18:43:05Z")
My dad was dead. His father hated me as a choice. We’re still happily married after over a dozen years married and being together several years before that. (And his father is still a poor excuse for a human being, but at least I knew that going in.) I wouldn’t cringe at the less-formal “asking her **parents** (as applicable) for their blessing,” but asking for permission to wed/her hand? Forget that. Not for me. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/67 "2011-10-24T18:45:04Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > But seriously, if a girl you were head over heels in love with, told you that it wasn’t necessarily a big deal to her, but it would mean a lot to her dad if you talked to him before you proposed…you would say “fuck that”? Or would you do it just because she asked you to? The goal posts. You’re moving them. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/68 "2011-10-24T18:46:42Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Wow. So now it’s political correctness to find out what the girl wants? Where did I say that? I either didn’t communicate it well, or you have misunderstood me. While the majority of the population of people here on the SDMB may be enlightened and beyond these archaic trappings, it is still the norm in the real world in the US for the guy to ask the girl’s dad for his blessing. I’m not making it up, nor am I living in the 1950’s. It is still the norm. If you don’t want your dude to ask your parents…great! As I said before…to each his own. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/69 "2011-10-24T18:47:32Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Wow. So now it’s political correctness to find out what the girl wants? Because you know, at no point do you even say that it might be a good idea to find out if the girl subscribes to this archaic nonsense, except for the exceptions where the girl and dad don’t get along. It’s unnecessary. If it turns out that the girl didn’t want you to ask her father first, then she wasn’t wife material anyway - she’d probably want to get a job outside the house, and drive a car by herself, and share the babysitter list willy-nilly. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/70 "2011-10-24T18:48:02Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > The goal posts. You’re moving them. This isn’t a debate, it’s a fluid conversation. I only said what’s the norm for me…you guys keep calling them “my rules”. I never called them that. I’m not trying to put you in a corner…but what about my question? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/71 "2011-10-24T18:51:37Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Edit: And demanding that people following tradition simply for tradition’s sake is stupid. More so when the tradition itself is a sexist joke. > > Edit 2: Yes, there is something wrong with you assuming that everyone buys into your patriarchy garbage. Not only are you displaying your sexism but you’re maligning everyone who doesn’t share your outdated beliefs. Don’t get your panties in such a wad…I fail to see my demands I’ve placed on anybody here. I’m just expressing my own personal points of view. Nor do I assume that anyone else is buying into my POV. Oh the malign!! Oh what drama…please. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/72 "2011-10-24T18:53:33Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > This isn’t a debate Yes it is. And you moved the goal posts. You said that any upstanding young man would ask a girl’s father for permission to marry her. We call you on your BS and now you’re asking about if the girl specifically asked for you to ask her father which was never a part of the discussion at all. It’s as if I said that any decent woman would let me fuck her in the ass and then when people call me on it I say “well what if she asked me to?” > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Don’t get your panties in such a wad…I fail to see my demands I’ve placed on anybody here. I’m just expressing my own personal points of view. Yeah, so what? I’m just expressing mine. You haven’t actually addressed the points at all. You just spout sexist crap and then whine “I’m just expressing my opinions man!” as if they’re sacred rather than actually responding. Better luck next time. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/73 "2011-10-24T18:56:25Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > While the majority of the population of people here on the SDMB may be enlightened and beyond these archaic trappings, it is still the norm in the real world in the US for the guy to ask the girl’s dad for his blessing. I’m not making it up, nor am I living in the 1950’s. It is still the norm. Cite? The only cite I could find was for [The United Kingdom](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250085/Your-daughters-hand-marriage-Ill-granted.html), where “eight in ten people said asking a girl’s father for her hand in marriage was no longer necessary these days.” Do you have some stats for the US, or is this yet another completely unsupported pronouncement? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/74 "2011-10-24T18:56:30Z")
Yeah, you moved the goal posts. Which I’m not surprised at. muldoonthief, 😃 Here is what you said exactly: > [@](#): > > One - You’re the dad, and you suspected that he was going to ask your daughter to marry him, and he hadn’t spoken to you about it? Come on, I realize that it may be considered a bit old fashioned, but that’s what any upstanding young man should do. I was 38 and my wife was 32 when we got engaged, and I still asked her dad for his blessing before popping the question. Which is pretty darn absolute. I do totally agree with you on the second point, that they are far too young to be married and could stand to wait a few years (cue all of the people who got married at 21 and are ECSTATIC now after all these years. ) ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/75 "2011-10-24T19:00:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Cite? The only cite I could find was for [The United Kingdom](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250085/Your-daughters-hand-marriage-Ill-granted.html), where “eight in ten people said asking a girl’s father for her hand in marriage was no longer necessary these days.” Do you have some stats for the US, or is this yet another completely unsupported pronouncement? High five. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/76 "2011-10-24T19:01:23Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Yes it is. And you moved the goal posts. You said that any upstanding young man would ask a girl’s father for permission to marry her. We call you on your BS and now you’re asking about if the girl specifically asked for you to ask her father which was never a part of the discussion at all. It’s as if I said that any decent woman would let me fuck her in the ass and then when people call me on it I say “well what if she asked me to?” If you’re gonna quote me at least go back read what I said…I never said that he needed to get her parent’s permission…just that he should talk to him and seek his blessing. You call it bullshit, I don’t. As far as the second part of me asking whether you would actually do it if the girl asked you to, of course it wasn’t part of the original discussion, I added it. Call it moving the goal posts or whatever, but if you don’t want to answer the question, just say that. I’m curious if your conviction against the practice even extended to not doing it even if asked. Bit considering you equate the practice with anal sex…I’m not sure how you would respond. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/77 "2011-10-24T19:07:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Cite? The only cite I could find was for [The United Kingdom](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250085/Your-daughters-hand-marriage-Ill-granted.html), where “eight in ten people said asking a girl’s father for her hand in marriage was no longer necessary these days.” Do you have some stats for the US, or is this yet another completely unsupported pronouncement? [http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/28155944/ns/today-weddings/t/asking-dad-daughters-hand-has-staying-power/](http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/28155944/ns/today-weddings/t/asking-dad-daughters-hand-has-staying-power/) 73% of guys think it should be done. 68% of girls think it’s okay but not neccesary. ETA: _me high fiving myself_ That just looks stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/78 "2011-10-24T19:09:08Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Wow. So now it’s political correctness to find out what the girl wants? Because you know, at no point do you even say that it might be a good idea to find out if the girl subscribes to this archaic nonsense, except for the exceptions where the girl and dad don’t get along. > > Put it this way: if my guy asked my dad first, I’d feel he knew me and respected me so little, he certainly wouldn’t deserve to marry me. > > I never follow tradition merely for the sake of tradition. Never ever. Justify it, give me a reason, and I probably will, but not just because. Exactly. Imagine the idea of your guy having more “respsect” for your dad than for you! My boyfriend shows his respect for my parents by going to dinner with them, laughing at their jokes, showing up at parties, wishing them happy birthday, etc. He shows respect to me by doing, well, all that, plus not treating me like somebody’s property that might be in need of transfer. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/79 "2011-10-24T19:09:58Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > If you’re gonna quote me at least go back read what I said…I never said that he needed to get her parent’s permission…just that he should talk to him and seek his blessing. Right. Not his permission… his “blessing.” Got it. > [@Omar](#): > > As far as the second part of me asking whether you would actually do it if the girl asked you to, of course it wasn’t part of the original discussion, I added it. Call it moving the goal posts or whatever, but if you don’t want to answer the question, just say that. I’m curious if your conviction against the practice even extended to not doing it even if asked. Bit considering you equate the practice with anal sex…I’m not sure how you would respond. 1.) The problem isn’t that you asked the question, but that you asked the question as if it was a response to all the criticism you were receiving. See my analogy. 2.) I probably wouldn’t be dating a chick that wanted me to ask her father for permission, oh, I’m sorry, I mean, a blessing, mostly because I don’t date women born in the 1950s, but assuming for the sake of your silly question I was, I wouldn’t have a problem doing it for her. But again, your hypothetical has nothing to do with the criticism you received. It’s irrelevant. You’re getting crap because you said that any upstanding guy would ask the father first (not the mother because of course a man is the king of his castle and speaks for the womenfolk in his care). ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484/80 "2011-10-24T19:13:53Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I only said what’s the norm for me…you guys keep calling them “my rules”. I never called them that. No, you never called them rules, but you do imply that the “norm for you” (by which you mean the norm everywhere but on the SDMB) is best for everyone: > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I realize that it may be considered a bit old fashioned, but **that’s what any upstanding young man should do**. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > \*\*If the daughter doesn’t really have much respect for her own parents, there obviously is no point of the suitor reaching out to her father or mother seeking a blessing. \*\* \It doesn’t hurt to start that relationship off on the right foot. > > But to each his own. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > It is still the norm in the real world in the US for the guy to ask the girl’s dad for his blessing. I’m not making it up, nor am I living in the 1950’s. **It is still the norm.** If you don’t want your dude to ask your parents…great! As I said before…to each his own. So, if a guy doesn’t ask his girlfriend’s father for the parents’ blessing, it’s either because he’s not upstanding, or because she doesn’t respect them. Or both. And whatever the reason, it’s definitely not normal. But of course, to each his own. It’s not a _rule_. If _you_ want to be a non-upstanding, parent-disrespecting, norm-flouting punk, great! Knock yourself out. It’s fine with **Omar** ; he’s not judging. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Way too much political correctness for me. There’s something to be said for tradition. And hell yeah, it’s patriachical, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Most good parents talk to each other about who their daughter’s are dating and whether they have reservations about the guy. If a dad doesn’t know what mom thinks of daughter’s boyfriend, then shame on him. He should be in a position to represent both parent’s POV. And any dude that doesn’t talk to his own parents about popping the question on his girlfriend, doesn’t have a real good relationship with his own parents and his girlfriend probably doesn’t either. So by my count, by the time the proposal occurs, if everyone’s got good, respectful relationships, then conversations should have already happened between: - Girlfriend’s mom and dad - Boyfriend’s mom and dad - Boyfriend and his parents - Boyfriend and girlfriend Therefore, none of these people need to confer with each other about their opinions on the matter. I’m totally with you there. But then the girlfriend, who respects her parents enough to want their blessing in advance of saying “yes”, should apparently _not_ ask them directly, but should send her boyfriend to talk to her dad, to make sure he (and by extension, her mother) approves. Why? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-my-daughter-is-going-to-get-proposed-to-tonight/600484.md?page=5)