# I think Ron Paul could pull it off **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 15, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343 "2011-12-15T21:37:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![mweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9c0ed/32.png) [@mweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mweb)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/181 "2012-01-04T05:56:11Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Ok, then once again please explain how someone who says things like > > is not a racist. > > Explain how someone who says that I “don’t look American” and “look suspicious” is not a racist. > > Does that also mean someone who insists that black people smell bad and white men have small penises is a racist? > > Admittedly the latter is a true statement while the former is clearly false. While I don’t approve of profiling at airports, there is a case to be made for it making some sense and I don’t think making that case automatically makes one a racist. There’s also a case to made that hiring people who speak English well is a good approach for people who work in customer service in some way or another. Plus, he actually looks at things from the foreign/Islamic perspective and understands their resentment towards the U.S. much more so than do most people in this country. If president, his policies would be much more favorable to those people than our current policies. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/182 "2012-01-04T07:06:12Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > While I don’t approve of profiling at airports, there is a case to be made for it making some sense and I don’t think making that case automatically makes one a racist. There’s also a case to made that hiring people who speak English well is a good approach for people who work in customer service in some way or another. This has nothing to do with racial profiling at airports. Paul wasn’t advocating that. He was complaining about the TSA hiring large numbers of minorities and complaining that they(and I) didn’t “look American”. Also, the idea that the TSA has large numbers of people talking to customers who can’t speak English is not only false but utterly moronic. The fact that Paul believes it is testament to what a disgusting little bigot he is. > [@](#): > > Plus, he actually looks at things from the foreign/Islamic perspective I am vastly more suited than Paul to view thing from “the foreign/Islamic perspective” and I can say that is complete bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![mweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9c0ed/32.png) [@mweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mweb)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/183 "2012-01-04T08:00:52Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > This has nothing to do with racial profiling at airports. > > Paul wasn’t advocating that. > > He was complaining about the TSA hiring large numbers of minorities and complaining that they(and I) didn’t “look American”. > > Also, the idea that the TSA has large numbers of people talking to customers who can’t speak English is not only false but utterly moronic. > > The fact that Paul believes it is testament to what a disgusting little bigot he is. > > I am vastly more suited than Paul to view thing from “the foreign/Islamic perspective” and I can say that is complete bullshit. Oh well you said, it’s complete BS, so it must be true. I have no clue in what way you are vastly more suited, but that wasn’t my point. You may not agree with his way of viewing things from a foreign/Islamic POV, and I didn’t say it was perfect by any means, but to deny that it is far more fair to them than most Americans are is naive at best regarding American views imo. His policies are not racist. I posted an article earlier, if you want to read that and or respond to it, go for it. I’ve listened to him speak quite a bit, read a fair amount of his more recent material, and I have not detected any racism. You may have already done so, but a link to this quote would be appreciated. As I said before, these newsletters are awful and I can understand that people won’t give him the benefit of the doubt and it will cause him to be even more un-electable than he already was. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/184 "2012-01-04T08:11:55Z")
Kevin Drum: [Crackpots do not make good messengers](http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/crackpots-messengers): Can we talk? Ron Paul is not a charming oddball with a few peculiar notions. He’s not merely “out of the mainstream.” Ron Paul is a full-bore crank. In fact he’s practically the dictionary definition of a crank: a person who has a single obsessive, all-encompassing idea for how the world should work and is utterly blinded to the value of any competing ideas or competing interests. This obsessive idea has, at various times in his career, led him to: denounce the Civil Rights Act because it infringed the free-market right of a monolithic white establishment to immiserate blacks; dabble in gold buggery and advocate the elimination of the Federal Reserve, apparently because the global economy worked so well back in the era before central banks; suggest that the border fence is being built to keep Americans from leaving the country; claim that Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional and should be dismantled; mount repeated warnings that hyperinflation is right around the corner; insist that global warming is a gigantic hoax; hint that maybe the CIA helped to coordinate the 9/11 attacks; oppose government-sponsored flu shots; and allege that the UN wants to confiscate our guns. This isn’t the biography of a person with one or two unusual hobbyhorses. It’s not something you can pretend doesn’t matter. This is Grade A crankery… Furthermore Drum argues that cranks make bad messengers for sensible people who want to [ease up on the drug war](http://www.amazon.com/Drugs-Drug-Policy-Everyone-Needs/dp/0199764506) or [pull out of Afghanistan](http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/06/slouching-out-afghanistan). It makes them look flaky via their association with a complete nutjob. “You sound like Ron Paul! Ha!” ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/185 "2012-01-04T12:05:34Z")
Well, looks like I was right in post 167 above. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/186 "2012-01-04T13:28:24Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > His policies are not racist. Repeating the analysis from an earlier post (#157): _"“Paul views every individual as completely autonomous, and he is incapable of imagining any force other than government power that could infringe upon their actual liberty. White people won’t hire you? Then go form a contract with somebody else. Government intervention can only make things worse… The most fevered opponents of civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s – and, for that matter, the most fervent defenders of slavery a century before – also usually made their case in in process terms rather than racist ones. They stood for the rights of the individual, or the rights of the states, against the federal Goliath. I am sure Paul’s motives derive from ideological fervor rather than a conscious desire to oppress minorities. But the relationship between the abstract principles of his worldview and the ugly racism with which it has so frequently been expressed is hardly coincidental.”_ His policies are a racist’s dream, which is why so many of them support him. His own statements (and those of the “surrogates” who spout racist crap in his writings (if you believe that fantasy)) drip with bigotry. I never cease to be amazed at the tunnel vision of those who only see the things they like about his foreign policy (complete isolationism) and fringe economic beliefs. “He won’t have the power to do anything really bad” is one hell of a campaign slogan. After coming in third in Iowa, at least we can start to anticipate Paul’s slow slide towards irrelevance. Unless he’s peeved enough to run as a third-party candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/187 "2012-01-04T13:38:40Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Kevin Drum: [Crackpots do not make good messengers](http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/crackpots-messengers): > Can we talk? Ron Paul is not a charming oddball with a few peculiar notions. He’s not merely “out of the mainstream.” Ron Paul is a full-bore crank. In fact he’s practically the dictionary definition of a crank: a person who has a single obsessive, all-encompassing idea for how the world should work and is utterly blinded to the value of any competing ideas or competing interests. > > This obsessive idea has, at various times in his career, led him to: denounce the Civil Rights Act because it infringed the free-market right of a monolithic white establishment to immiserate blacks; dabble in gold buggery and advocate the elimination of the Federal Reserve, apparently because the global economy worked so well back in the era before central banks; suggest that the border fence is being built to keep Americans from leaving the country; claim that Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional and should be dismantled; mount repeated warnings that hyperinflation is right around the corner; insist that global warming is a gigantic hoax; hint that maybe the CIA helped to coordinate the 9/11 attacks; oppose government-sponsored flu shots; and allege that the UN wants to confiscate our guns. > > This isn’t the biography of a person with one or two unusual hobbyhorses. It’s not something you can pretend doesn’t matter. This is Grade A crankery… Why didn’t Drum mention the Trilateral Commission or the Amero? WHO GOT TO HIM? ---
**Author:** ![mweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9c0ed/32.png) [@mweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mweb)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/188 "2012-01-04T17:25:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Repeating the analysis from an earlier post (#157): > > _"“Paul views every individual as completely autonomous, and he is incapable of imagining any force other than government power that could infringe upon their actual liberty. White people won’t hire you? Then go form a contract with somebody else. Government intervention can only make things worse… > The most fevered opponents of civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s – and, for that matter, the most fervent defenders of slavery a century before – also usually made their case in in process terms rather than racist ones. They stood for the rights of the individual, or the rights of the states, against the federal Goliath. I am sure Paul’s motives derive from ideological fervor rather than a conscious desire to oppress minorities. But the relationship between the abstract principles of his worldview and the ugly racism with which it has so frequently been expressed is hardly coincidental.”_ > > His policies are a racist’s dream, which is why so many of them support him. His own statements (and those of the “surrogates” who spout racist crap in his writings (if you believe that fantasy)) drip with bigotry. > > I never cease to be amazed at the tunnel vision of those who only see the things they like about his foreign policy (complete isolationism) and fringe economic beliefs. “He won’t have the power to do anything really bad” is one hell of a campaign slogan. > > After coming in third in Iowa, at least we can start to anticipate Paul’s slow slide towards irrelevance. Unless he’s peeved enough to run as a third-party candidate. Philosophically they are not racist at all. They are the opposite of racist since they treat everyone equally. Now can some of those principles be used by racist people to do racist things? Yes. His view on the war on terror and the war on drugs are the opposite of racist and our current policies that are certainly not favorable to inner city minorities and overseas people (primarily Muslims) can certainly be argued to racist, yet they’re largely accepted. In terms of what you are amazed about in regards to tunnel vision, I already addressed that. If he somehow actually became president, most of what he believes in would not be implemented to anywhere close to the degree he would like. He would only have so much power to make many of these changes and he is not someone who would try to abuse the powers of the executive branch. Foreign policy and limiting spending would be the primary things what he would be able to accomplish. We wouldn’t be living in a true libertarian society with him, not even close. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/189 "2012-01-04T17:36:13Z")
Close enough. Libertarianism is a crackpot theory, and crackpots shouldn’t be involved in politics at _any_ level. BTW, he is still a racist, no matter how you hand-wave away his past statements and positions. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/190 "2012-01-04T17:39:05Z")
So supporting the current drug laws in the US is indicative of racism but railing against Lawrence V. Texas and specifically arguing that states had the right to regulate private sexual activity(specifically jail people for engaging in homosexual intercourse) and that black people “don’t look American” and referring to gays as “queers” is not indicative of bigotry. Respectfully people who insist Paul isn’t bigoted either A)don’t understand the meaning of the term, B)don’t know as much about Paul as they think they do, or C)are aggressively in denial of reality. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/191 "2012-01-04T17:52:05Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Respectfully people who insist Paul isn’t bigoted either A)don’t understand the meaning of the term, B)don’t know as much about Paul as they think they do, or C)are aggressively in denial of reality. Oo! Can we vote for D) all of the above ? ---
**Author:** ![mweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9c0ed/32.png) [@mweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mweb)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/192 "2012-01-04T18:20:36Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So supporting the current drug laws in the US is indicative of racism but railing against Lawrence V. Texas and specifically arguing that states had the right to regulate private sexual activity(specifically jail people for engaging in homosexual intercourse) and that black people “don’t look American” and referring to gays as “queers” is not indicative of bigotry. > > Respectfully people who insist Paul isn’t bigoted either A)don’t understand the meaning of the term, B)don’t know as much about Paul as they think they do, or C)are aggressively in denial of reality. Once again, provide the links please. And I’m not insisting anything. You are the one insisting he is a racist. I am saying that based on what I have heard him say, read about him, and seen from his political record, I don’t think he is a racist. But obviously the newsletters are bad and put doubt in my mind. If you provided the evidence of what you’re are talking about, that would also change my thinking. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/193 "2012-01-04T18:46:30Z")
[Ron Paul doesn’t write his own tweets, either](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71075.html). He surrounds himself with classy people. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/194 "2012-01-04T18:50:31Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > Philosophically they are not racist at all. They are the opposite of racist since they treat everyone equally. That would never be a fair characterization of any pol who would allow private-sector Jim Crow to persist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/195 "2012-01-04T18:55:24Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > [Ron Paul doesn’t write his own tweets, either](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71075.html). More to the point, he exercises no editorial control over _that_, either. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/196 "2012-01-04T19:09:29Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > [Ron Paul doesn’t write his own tweets, either](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71075.html). > > He surrounds himself with classy people. Jeez… I thought the tweet posted was funny only to realize it was clearly racist. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/197 "2012-01-04T19:13:50Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Jeez… I thought the tweet posted was funny only to realize it was clearly racist. Yes, that’s exactly what I and the article said. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/198 "2012-01-04T20:20:49Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > Once again, provide the links please. > > And I’m not insisting anything. You are the one insisting he is a racist. I am saying that based on what I have heard him say, read about him, and seen from his political record, I don’t think he is a racist. > > But obviously the newsletters are bad and put doubt in my mind. If you provided the evidence of what you’re are talking about, that would also change my thinking. I believe it’s already been posted, but just in case: [http://www.salon.com/2007/06/02/ron\_paul\_6/singleton/?mobile.html](http://www.salon.com/2007/06/02/ron_paul_6/singleton/?mobile.html) > [@](#): > > “We quadrupled the TSA, you know, and hired more people who look more suspicious to me than most Americans who are getting checked,” Paul says. “Most of them are, well, you know, they just don’t look very American to me. If I’d have been looking, they look suspicious … I mean, a lot of them can’t even speak English, hardly. Not that I’m accusing them of anything, but it’s sort of ironic.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/199 "2012-01-04T20:44:02Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > Once again, provide the links please. > > And I’m not insisting anything. You are the one insisting he is a racist. I am saying that based on what I have heard him say, read about him, and seen from his political record, I don’t think he is a racist. > > But obviously the newsletters are bad and put doubt in my mind. If you provided the evidence of what you’re are talking about, that would also change my thinking. I suspect you are too young to know how avowed racists justify their racism. Here is the statement by George Wallace in 1963 when he stood in the schoolhouse door to prevent two black students from registering at the University of Alabama. From [here](http://www.archives.state.al.us/govs_list/schooldoor.html) > [@](#): > > ``` > As Governor and Chief Magistrate of the State of Alabama I deem it to be my solemn obligation and duty to stand before you representing the rights and sovereignty of this State and its peoples. > > The unwelcomed, unwanted, unwarranted and force-induced intrusion upon the campus of the University of Alabama today of the might of the Central Government offers frightful example of the oppression of the rights, privileges and sovereignty of this State by officers of the Federal Government. This intrusion results solely from force, or threat of force, undignified by any reasonable application of the principle of law, reason and justice. It is important that the people of this State and nation understand that this action is in violation of rights reserved to the State by the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Alabama. While some few may applaud these acts, millions of Americans will gaze in sorrow upon the situation existing at this great institution of learning. > > ``` See the similarity? Nothing racist about it Wallace says, he is just upholding the Constitution and States Rights. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/200 "2012-01-04T20:47:28Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > Philosophically they are not racist at all. They are the opposite of racist since they treat everyone equally. Please familiarize yourself with the concept of tyranny of the majority. A libertarian could certainly support eliminating civil rights protections for that philosophical reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343.md?page=11)