# I think Ron Paul could pull it off **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 15, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343 "2011-12-15T21:37:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/201 "2012-01-04T21:15:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That would never be a fair characterization of any pol who would allow private-sector Jim Crow to persist. Not exactly, they recognize the right of others to be racist. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/202 "2012-01-04T21:16:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Please familiarize yourself with the concept of tyranny of the majority. A libertarian could certainly support eliminating civil rights protections for that philosophical reason. That doesn’t make someone a racist. _Wrong_, sure, but not racist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/203 "2012-01-04T21:17:13Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Not exactly, they recognize the right of others to be racist. Last I checked, even the most liberal Democrats don’t propose that racism be outlawed. What’s illegal under civil rights laws is discrimination based on race. You can believe whatever you want; acting on it is another matter. > [@Grumman](#): > > That doesn’t make someone a racist. _Wrong_, sure, but not racist. I didn’t say it did. **mweb** was libertarians are not “philosophically” racist because they think the law should treat everyone the same way. I was pointing out that you can take that viewpoint for racist reasons. ---
**Author:** ![mweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9c0ed/32.png) [@mweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mweb)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/204 "2012-01-04T21:44:51Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I believe it’s already been posted, but just in case: > [http://www.salon.com/2007/06/02/ron\_paul\_6/singleton/?mobile.html](http://www.salon.com/2007/06/02/ron_paul_6/singleton/?mobile.html) And links for the other stuff you mention? As far as the TSA thing, I don’t think that’s some awful thing when given the context of the irony he was pointing out. ---
**Author:** ![mweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9c0ed/32.png) [@mweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mweb)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/205 "2012-01-04T21:52:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Last I checked, even the most liberal Democrats don’t propose that racism be outlawed. What’s illegal under civil rights laws is discrimination based on race. You can believe whatever you want; acting on it is another matter. > I didn’t say it did. **mweb** was libertarians are not “philosophically” racist because they think the law should treat everyone the same way. I was pointing out that you can take that viewpoint for racist reasons. You can take it for racist reasons, sure. So he may or may not have taken his stance for racist reasons. I lean towards not, but am not totally confident of that position. I just wish there was a candidate that’s a milder form of Ron Paul without the racism issues because I think the general ideas of the foreign policy, cutting spending and taxes, stopping the war on drugs, focusing more on personal responsibility, and limiting the powers of government are what this nations needs. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/206 "2012-01-04T21:54:31Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > And links for the other stuff you mention? > > As far as the TSA thing, I don’t think that’s some awful thing when given the context of the irony he was pointing out. The TSA hires more minorities than most businesses in the public sector. You can notice this. That’s fine. But to say that the employees don’t look American is messed up. They’re wearing a TSA uniform, so they sure don’t look un-American because of their outfit. What’s left to make them look un-American? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/207 "2012-01-04T23:29:58Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > And links for the other stuff you mention? > > As far as the TSA thing, I don’t think that’s some awful thing when given the context of the irony he was pointing out. With all due respect and this isn’t intended as an insult or an insinuation that you’re a racist, but if you genuinely don’t think it’s racist to claim that black people “don’t look American” then you are beyond reason and impervious to logic. You asked for an already provided link, said you’d change your mind on Paul if the quote was genuine, and have now, quite predictably not changed your mind. I’m not going to continue this conversation because it’s pretty clear at this point you’ll handwave away anything so continuing this discussion would be pointless. If you wish to think it’s not racist or even “awful” to claim that people who like me “don’t look American”, fine, but don’t expect people who look like me to want to debate the issue with you. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/208 "2012-01-05T00:42:04Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Not exactly, they recognize the right of others to be racist. No, they believe people have the right to discriminate on the basis of race. Similarly, many such as Ron Paul, object to the federal government persecuting people but have no problem with idea of state governments persecuting people. For example Paul has explicitly defended the rights of state governments to criminalize homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/209 "2012-01-05T00:53:50Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > I just wish there was a candidate that’s a milder form of Ron Paul without the racism issues because I think the general ideas of the foreign policy, cutting spending and taxes, stopping the war on drugs, focusing more on personal responsibility, and limiting the powers of government are what this nations needs. What about Gary Johnson or Buddy Roemer? I don’t know much about them, but I don’t think either is drawing much support from the racist crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/210 "2012-01-05T01:05:37Z")
For anyone who refuses to believe that Paul believes State governments have the right to restrict the private sexual behavior of its residents: [http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul120.html](http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul120.html) > [@](#): > > Consider the Lawrence case decided by the Supreme Court in June. The Court determined that Texas had no right to establish its own standards for private sexual conduct, because gay sodomy is somehow protected under the 14th amendment ‘right to privacy.’ Ridiculous as sodomy laws may be, there clearly is no right to privacy nor sodomy found anywhere in the Constitution. There are, however, states’ rights—rights plainly affirmed in the Ninth and Tenth amendments. Under those amendments, the State of Texas has the right to decide for itself how to regulate social matters like sex, using its own local standards. But rather than applying the real Constitution and declining jurisdiction over a properly state matter, the Court decided to apply the imaginary Constitution and impose its vision on the people of Texas." ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/211 "2012-01-05T03:06:45Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > No, they believe people have the right to discriminate on the basis of race. > > Similarly, many such as Ron Paul, object to the federal government persecuting people but have no problem with idea of state governments persecuting people. > > For example Paul has explicitly defended the rights of state governments to criminalize homosexuality. Well if he was running for governor of Maryland, and supported laws of this nature, I wouldn’t vote for him. But he is running for president where he would not have the chance to limit gay rights. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/212 "2012-01-05T03:41:40Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Well if he was running for governor of Maryland, and supported laws of this nature, I wouldn’t vote for him. But he is running for president where he would not have the chance to limit gay rights. :dubious: Remember DADT? Federal. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/213 "2012-01-05T03:58:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: Remember DADT? Federal. And the Defense of Marriage Act. Or are we relying on Paul’s promise that he wouldn’t support legislating personal morality that way (unless the issue is abortion)? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/214 "2012-01-05T04:14:02Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Well if he was running for governor of Maryland, and supported laws of this nature, I wouldn’t vote for him. But he is running for president where he would not have the chance to limit gay rights. In addition to what others have pointed out, he’s in charge of a number of federal agencies responsible for handling discrimination against minorities and gays. He’s made it clear that he’s an ardent opponent of the Civil Rights laws that ended Jim Crow and an enthusiastic supporter of the idea that states can discriminate against people he calls “queers”. Obviously, there’s no reason to believe that he wouldn’t cause such agencies to go slow since he believes that businesses have the right to discriminate against both minorities and gays and supports the right of local government to persecute gays. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/215 "2012-01-05T04:19:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And the Defense of Marriage Act. Or are we relying on Paul’s promise that he wouldn’t support legislating personal morality that way (unless the issue is abortion)? Nor have we the slightest reason to believe that he’d have the Justice Department step in if states step over the line. After all, he’s the guy who claimed: > [@](#): > > the State of Texas has the right to decide for itself how to regulate social matters like sex, using its own local standards. Additionally he’d almost certainly try and put Justices in the Federal Courts and on the Supreme Court who share his asinine, bigoted beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/216 "2012-01-05T05:44:59Z")
David Frum, former speechwriter for GWBush, writes: Ron Paul’s supporters ask that their candidate not be judged by his associates. Or by the people he chose to employ. Or by the newsletters he published. Or by the book he wrote. Or by the way he earned the largest part of his living when out of office in the 1990s. Or by his purchase of the mailing list of the Holocaust-denying Liberty Lobby. … And here I thought that libertarianism was a doctrine of personal responsibility? May Ron Paul at least be judged by the words he has spoken with his own mouth within the current campaign? The supporters say “no” again. … Andrew [Sullivan] deploys what might be called the ontological defense of Ron Paul, as follows: 1. Ron Paul is a libertarian. 2. Libertarians espouse individualism. 3. Racism is a form of anti-individualism. 4. Therefore Ron Paul cannot be a racist. That is a demonstration of what might be called the deductive method of reasoning. But there’s another way to study reality: induction. Like this: 1. Ron Paul has again and again exploited bigotry, paranoia, and hate as fundraising devices. 2. Ron Paul is a libertarian. 3. So yes, I guess it is possible for a libertarian to do that. … [http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-personal-responsibility](http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-personal-responsibility) What Frum doesn’t get is that modern conservatives are into personal responsibility only insofar as it applies to others. Talking about Ron Paul’s “Philosophy” as something that trumps his fundraising appeals and dog-whistling to white supremacists and bigots is just silly. It’s like saying Lew Rockwell can’t be a racist, because the Austrian School believes in freedom and Lew Rockwell is President of the Ludwig von Mises Institute. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/217 "2012-01-05T14:10:37Z")
C’mon people. You gotta remember that tyranny is only tyranny if the federal government does something. The states can ban abortion, criminalize whatever behavior they want and sanction whatever discrimination they see fit. If you’re unlucky enough to live in such a state you can just pick up and move somewhere else. If there’s no place to go or reasons you can’t move, tough luck. What’s more important, your personal welfare and happiness, or libertarian doctrine? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/218 "2012-01-05T14:25:25Z")
I don’t know Jack, your argument is looking mighty… non-American to me. Is it maybe looking… a little over-tanned? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/219 "2012-01-05T16:18:44Z")
Here’s a ringing endorsement of Ron Paul from an off-the-wall antivaxer posting on another site (dealing largely with antivaccination views and medical quackery): \*"How about that Ron Paul you make fun of making it in the important top three after all in the Iowa caucus? Now he will be heard & truth can’t help but come out on this man who will save our nation & help us take back what’s ours including the health & well being of our children. He’s old all right but being & doctor, not like the quacks who couldn’t care less about us that this site represents & uses to fool good & unsuspecting people who should be doing their own research instead of beLIEving the bull here parroted so he’s healthier than any of the other candidates who are all puppets.\*" So there you go, Vote Ron! Or we’ll drool all over you. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/220 "2012-01-05T16:42:57Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > I just wish there was a candidate that’s a milder form of Ron Paul without the racism issues because I think the general ideas of the foreign policy, cutting spending and taxes, stopping the war on drugs, focusing more on personal responsibility, and limiting the powers of government are what this nations needs. His general ideas on foreign policy are stupid but probably better than our current militaristic stance. Cut what spending? Cut taxes, seriously? OK the war on drugs has gotten out of hand, we should legalize pot make most other drugs at least prescription based. > [@Terraplane](#): > > The TSA hires more minorities than most businesses in the public sector. You can notice this. That’s fine. But to say that the employees don’t look American is messed up. They’re wearing a TSA uniform, so they sure don’t look un-American because of their outfit. > > What’s left to make them look un-American? Add to taht the fact that its almost impossible to get a federal job unless you are a citizen, especially a job in DHS. To be fair, Ron paul isn’t very racist for an 80 year old white guy from Texas. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > No, they believe people have the right to discriminate on the basis of race. Umm I think thats what people mean when they say “racist” > [@Marley23](#): > > And the Defense of Marriage Act. Or are we relying on Paul’s promise that he wouldn’t support legislating personal morality that way (unless the issue is abortion)? Abortion is more than a moral issue. It is not hard to see it as a rights issue for the child. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343.md?page=12)