# I think Ron Paul could pull it off **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 15, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343 "2011-12-15T21:37:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/261 "2012-01-06T22:01:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Ron Paul has been pretty specific about what he would cut. He would cut a LOT fo the defense department, he would virtually eliminate all social programs and all departments outside of state, treasury and defense. IMO, at least, that’s not “cutting fat”. That’s deciding that the federal government is going to get out of a lot of the “businesses” in which it currently operates, and is more like cutting off limbs and removing internal organs. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/262 "2012-01-07T08:14:51Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > Umm, did he specify black? I don’t think so. It’s extremely clear, as several others have noted, that he was very clearly saying that the TSA employees “don’t look American to me” because they’re minorities. No reasonable person could think otherwise. Anyone who claims that Paul was trying to say anything else is either not telling the truth or they completely lack in basic reading comprehension skills. > [@](#): > > Context is key as well, and he is pointing out an irony in that a lot of people want foreigners to be more likely to be checked out intensely at airports (not Paul), but the people who do the checking are more likely to be 1st or 2nd generation immigrants. So it’s not my fault you can’t understand the point. You’re completely misrepresenting what Paul said. > [@](#): > > Most of them are, well, you know, **they just don’t look very American to me**. If I’d have been looking, they look suspicious … I mean, a lot of them can’t even speak English, hardly. He’s making it clear that the TSA employees, who are disproportionately minority “don’t look American” to him. Now anyone who tries to claim that it’s not racist to claim that brown-skinned Americans “don’t look American” is either A)lying, B)racist themselves or C)completely ignorant of what constitutes racism or D)impervious to reason and logic. > [@](#): > > I asked for different links to thinks you said without backing up. That was clear. It’s not my fault you haven’t provided them. Now you’re misrepresenting what you asked for. > [@](#): > > And I’m not insisting anything. You are the one insisting he is a racist. I am saying that based on what I have heard him say, read about him, and seen from his political record, I don’t think he is a racist. > > But obviously the newsletters are bad and put doubt in my mind. If you provided the evidence of what you’re are talking about, that would also change my thinking. You asked for links to prove his comments regarding the TSA employees were genuine and specifically said that doing so “would also change my thinking.” You didn’t say it “might” change your mind but that it would. Now, if you still refuse to believe that Ron Paul is a racist after being provided links to him making blatantly racist statements then there is utterly no point in continuing this conversation with you so I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/263 "2012-01-07T15:54:00Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Anyone who claims that Paul was trying to say anything else is either not telling the truth or they completely lack in basic reading comprehension skills. > > […] > > Now anyone who tries to claim that it’s not racist to claim that brown-skinned Americans “don’t look American” is either A)lying, B)racist themselves or C)completely ignorant of what constitutes racism or D)impervious to reason and logic. The guideline in debates here is to keep personal commentary to a minimum. So if this discussion continues, please don’t post any more comments about **mweb** ’s honesty or reasonability. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/264 "2012-01-07T16:57:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The guideline in debates here is to keep personal commentary to a minimum. So if this discussion continues, please don’t post any more comments about **mweb** ’s honesty or reasonability. I wasn’t making comments about Mweb, I was making comments about people who insist that it’s not racist to say that people like me don’t “look American.” I also made it clear that I’m not continuing the discussion with him. I also don’t see how my comments could be considered more personal than his “it’s not my fault you’re too dumb to understand Paul’s point”(paraphrase). Anyway I don’t see what’s wrong with my comment. Am I also not allowed to say that anyone who claims that it’s not racist to claim blacks are stupid is either lying, racist, or impervious to logic because many posters on this site believe that? ---
**Author:** ![mweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9c0ed/32.png) [@mweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mweb)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/265 "2012-01-08T20:34:00Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > How “considerable” that would be depends on how one calculates the the societal cost of a potential increase in legalized drug use, including the cost of law enforcement to handle additional crimes committed in order to get money for drugs. > > I’m not saying that decriminalizing some aspects of drug use is a concept that totally lacks merit. I am dubious that we’ll save and/or generate gobs of money that way (I suspect drug lords/smugglers will have some say about the degree to which their product will be superseded by any legally produced drugs). It is also questionable to claim that drug laws in total are racist; one could easily argue that “ending the war on drugs” is likely to have some detrimental effects on minorities. I’m quite confident that law enforcement spends more money enforcing drug laws and dealing with drug dealing related crime than it would the increases in crime due to he potential increase of drug use. I don’t know why there would be many more crimes in order to get money for drugs considering they have to pay for it now. Then there’s greatly reduced number of people who would need to be jailed. And there’s the money earned from taxes on drugs. As far as the last part. I don’t think the laws are all that racist, but I think their effects are mostly negative to inner city minorities. White people are the primary buyers of drugs, but the inner cities are wrecked in part due to the drug game. The violence that comes from it along with the allure of getting into the drug game rather than going to school or working a mediocre job are two of the main reasons why imo. But I certainly understand the hesitance by most to legalize drugs, especially ones beyond marijuana. ---
**Author:** ![mweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9c0ed/32.png) [@mweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mweb)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/266 "2012-01-08T20:35:12Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The deficit isn’t continuously increasing. Yes, I meant debt. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/267 "2012-01-08T23:11:05Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You seem to be deliberately misreading what Ron Paul said. I haven’t seen evidence of him saying that whites are superior to minorities but he was saying that brown skinned people don’t look American to him, while white people do. Brown-skinned people were living here in 1776. How much more American can you get? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/268 "2012-01-09T02:34:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Brown-skinned people were living here in 1776. How much more American can you get? We were living here long before 1776. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/269 "2012-01-09T03:02:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > We were living here long before 1776. So were the white folks. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/270 "2012-01-09T04:18:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So were the white folks. Not denying that. Merely pointing out that we were here before 1776. Nevertheless, Paul thinks that we “don’t look American” and some think that it’s absurd for people to consider such statements racist. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/271 "2012-01-09T16:22:39Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > IMO, at least, that’s not “cutting fat”. That’s deciding that the federal government is going to get out of a lot of the “businesses” in which it currently operates, and is more like cutting off limbs and removing internal organs. I was just pointing out that he has a specific plan that goes beyondf waste fraud and abuse, welfare queens and cutting costs associated with enforcing environmental regulations. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/272 "2012-01-12T03:07:11Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I believe it’s already been posted, but just in case: > [http://www.salon.com/2007/06/02/ron\_paul\_6/singleton/?mobile.html](http://www.salon.com/2007/06/02/ron_paul_6/singleton/?mobile.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > “We quadrupled the TSA, you know, and hired more people who look more suspicious to me than most Americans who are getting checked,” Paul says. “Most of them are, well, you know, they just don’t look very American to me. If I’d have been looking, they look suspicious … I mean, a lot of them can’t even speak English, hardly. Not that I’m accusing them of anything, but it’s sort of ironic.” Is there another cite for this? I did a small amount of googling and didn’t find any collaboration from any other sites that weren’t parroting Salon. This seems like fairly explosive comment by Paul that, if true, is damning and I’m surprised it’s not reported elsewhere. I did a search for the exact text so maybe Salon was paraphrasing? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/273 "2012-01-12T03:14:53Z")
I believe he made those comments _to Salon_ for that article, so you wouldn’t find them anywhere that didn’t source them to Salon. It’s not hurting his campaign because, as you can already see, his supporters don’t care or will concoct a reason to excuse them. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/274 "2012-01-12T03:39:20Z")
But wouldn’t you expect the more liberal media sites to pick up on this and report it? Certainly they wouldn’t gloss over it, would they? I’m not saying it’s impossible that Paul made that quote but there’s a lot of dirt in politics and I’d prefer to see it collaborated. There are plenty of semi-reputable sites that say Obama is not a US citizen and we know how true that is. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/275 "2012-01-12T04:26:53Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I’m not saying it’s impossible that Paul made that quote but there’s a lot of dirt in politics and I’d prefer to see it collaborated. There are plenty of semi-reputable sites that say Obama is not a US citizen and we know how true that is. With all due respect, what you’re saying is illogical and sets a ridiculous standard. Salon is a well-known, reliable source. Paul said this to a Salon reporter who was interviewing him. Obviously, because he said this during an interview with Salon any report on it will be traced back to the article. In order for it to be false two things would have to be true. A)Salon would have decided to manufacture a quote of Ron Paul that would easily be proven false leading to a libel suit that would put them out of business. B)Paul has the most incompetent staff of all time. His campaign is followed around by people who videotape all of his interviews. A well-known site has put out of a quote of him making a disgustingly racist comment and not only have they for some inexplicable reason not put out a statement denying it as would any other staff, but despite having staff-members videotape every interview he does they haven’t produce the video of the interview to prove Salon guilty of libel. Sorry, but it is completely unreasonable and illogical to entertain the notion that the quote is false. I’d say there’s actually a greater chance that OJ Simpson didn’t murder his wife but was the victim of a massive conspiracy. I’m sure when you examine the facts you’ll conclude that we should assume the quote is correct unless some pretty compelling evidence is produced demonstrating just how incompetent Paul’s staff is and how malicious Salon is. > [@](#): > > But wouldn’t you expect the more liberal media sites to pick up on this and report it? Certainly they wouldn’t gloss over it, would they? No, this is simply more evidence that the media has been largely giving Paul a pass compared to the other candidates. You’ll notice that until this year the media has largely ignored his racist newsletters. Also it’s strong evidence that the conservative myth of “the liberal mainstream media” is at best overblown if not false. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/276 "2012-01-12T04:56:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > With all due respect, what you’re saying is illogical and sets a ridiculous standard. The standard I’m resistant to is thinking every accusation on the internet must be true, especially one that conveniently fits my political view. If I gave you some derogatory quote from Obama on Fox news and you saw no collaborative evidence of that quote you would be (rightly) suspicious. You think Obama tracks down every mis-attributed quote? I doubt Paul does either. Maybe the Salon blogger/reporter made it up, maybe he paraphrased or took it out of context, maybe it’s entirely true. Until I see collaborative evidence I’m sceptical. As we’ve seen with the birther nonsense and the Barry-is-a-commie rhetoric the media is willing to push an agenda. The liberal media does it like the conservative media. I will add that if Paul really did say that then it’s a black mark. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You’ll notice that until this year the media has largely ignored his racist newsletters. > > Also it’s strong evidence that the conservative myth of “the liberal mainstream media” is at best overblown if not false. Or maybe it’s evidence that there really isn’t much there. I don’t hear Fox going on about Rev. Wright any more (admittedly I don’t read/watch Fox much), perhaps because it has little bearing on Obama. I am no Paul apologist–I think he would be a disastrous president and he’s a borderline conspiracy theorist–but I’m not going to believe every accusation just because his politics differ from mine. I will add that if Paul really did say that then it’s a black mark against him. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/277 "2012-01-12T06:19:12Z")
> [@](#): > > **Deeg** > The standard I’m resistant to is thinking every accusation on the internet must be true, especially one that conveniently fits my political view. It’s not an accusation, it’s a quote from an interview in an article that’s not even terribly anti-Paul. Obviously, Ron Paul’s followers and his apologists will either ignore it or refuse to believe it because they’ve proven completely impervious to reason. > [@](#): > > **Deeg** > You think Obama tracks down every mis-attributed quote? I doubt Paul does either. I’m sorry but you’re dodging the context. Obama and Paul both have all their interview recorded and yes, if some reporter for Fox News manufactured a quote then they would come down on it hard, particularly when it’s an interview conducted while his aides were present. And yes, if some reporter deliberately misquoted something that either Paul or Obama said in an interview that was observed by their aides and was recorded then yes, the aides would be all over it like white on rice. If you don’t believe that then all I can say is you’ve never been involved in a political campaign. > [@](#): > > If I gave you some derogatory quote from Obama on Fox news and you saw no collaborative evidence of that quote you would be (rightly) suspicious. Did you actually read the article? This makes no sense because the article was hardly all that anti-Paul and there’s no reason to think the reporter was an ideologue out to destroy him. Also, Paul’s aides were present during the interview. Beyond that Salon is vastly more respectable and trustworthy than Fox News. To make a better analogy, yes, if a reporter for say The National Review conducted an interview with Obama while Obama’s aides were present and the reporter quoted him as saying something questionable and the White House didn’t deny it then yes, I’d assume it was true. To do otherwise would be extremely illogical and would make every reasonable person believe I was an apologist. > [@](#): > > Until I see collaborative evidence I’m sceptical. Since the Salon reporter was the only one present with Paul and his aides you’re asking for the impossible. Essentially you’re saying that you won’t believe that OJ is guilty of murdering his wife unless someone produces a videotape of the murder. In fact, I find the idea that OJ was an innocent man framed vastly more plausible than the idea that Paul’s staff is completely incompetent and he’s been framed by an evil salon reporter. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/278 "2012-01-12T06:52:27Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > The standard I’m resistant to is thinking every accusation on the internet must be true, especially one that conveniently fits my political view. If I gave you some derogatory quote from Obama on Fox news and you saw no collaborative evidence of that quote you would be (rightly) suspicious. Suspicion would be justified because Fox News consistently gets its facts wrong and consistently presents information out of context. Salon does not have the same execrable track record. I wouldn’t trust Worker’s World Daily either, but if a far-left outlet practiced serious journalism, I would give it a look. Similarly, I take David Frum, Bruce Bartlett and The Volkh Conspiracy seriously, because although they are very conservative, they take care to get their facts straight to my knowledge. If they didn’t, I would wander away: ditto for a lefty such as eg the late Christopher Hitchens (IMHO, in the last case: I can’t substantiate my dubiousness). One can have an opinion and still present the facts with care and fairness. And I am man enough to read somebody I disagree with without fainting-- and I daresay most women have the ovaries to do the same. Complaints about bias are simply whines from those with sensitive dispositions. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/279 "2012-01-12T07:15:47Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Since the Salon reporter was the only one present with Paul and his aides you’re asking for the impossible. Or he could produce a audio recording. I’d give it more credence if at least one other major news organization followed up on it but until then I view it with a sceptical eye. I refuse to base judgement on unsubstantiated hear-say. I can believe that Paul said it but without more proof it’s just a rumour to me. Calling my position moronic or idiotic will not make one difference to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343/280 "2012-01-12T08:46:34Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Or he could produce a audio recording. I’d give it more credence if at least one other major news organization followed up on it but until then I view it with a sceptical eye. Fair enough. I’ll take you at your word. I’ll assume you don’t trust any interviews published in the New York Times unless the reporter showed an audio recording of the interview and also had representatives from other media organizations present during the recording to verify it happened. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-ron-paul-could-pull-it-off/606343.md?page=15)