# I think the GRE is BS **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 18, 2008, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729 "2008-12-18T11:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/41 "2008-12-19T01:23:08Z")
> [@OhFace](#): > > I never said that a GPA is the sole best determination either, I just said the GRE doesn’t prove anything. I agree with what you said. I don’t have the typical 3.9 GPA that many psych Ph.D. applicants have, but I wish it were also noted that I took many difficult classes, some of which were even used by my school as pre-med weed out classes. I didn’t cherry pick my classes and professors but if I had I would have that almost perfect GPA. > > I don’t typically do poorly on standardized tests, I did good on the ACT. I need a 1200 for Ph.D. programs and just can’t seem to break that on the GRE, but for other programs my score would be considered good. Regardless, even if I had aced it, it is irrelevant. The quantitative you can study for, and get good and quick at the particular math problems they use, but the verbal is ridiculous. Either you know the word or you don’t, and my intelligence should not be determined by my knowledge of obscure words! If the PowerPrep software is any indication, there is no reason to know a bunch of obscure words. You should be able to reason your way through the verbal section. Speaking of which, has anyone used the PowerPrep software and has that helped? Robin ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/42 "2008-12-19T01:41:09Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > The “only people who failed at the GRE hate it” is a non-starter of an argument. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > **People who complain bitterly about standardized tests tend to fall into two groups** (bolding added): those who do relatively poorly on them (often because they either have a lousy reading background or have slid through their coursework without picking up key information), plus those who think factors other than academic excellence should be of major importance in admittance to higher education programs. Tell us again how well you did on the reading comprehension part of the exam. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/43 "2008-12-19T01:46:14Z")
I’m confused, **Jackmannii**. Are you actually saying that, other than sore losers, people who think things other than academics are important are the ones that dislike the GRE? What is there other than academics in applying to grad school? ---
**Author:** ![OhFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecccb3/32.png) [@OhFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OhFace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/44 "2008-12-19T02:49:26Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > If the PowerPrep software is any indication, there is no reason to know a bunch of obscure words. You should be able to reason your way through the verbal section. > > Speaking of which, has anyone used the PowerPrep software and has that helped? > > Robin I used the PowerPrep and took a Kaplan course; my Verbal scored lowered!!! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/45 "2008-12-19T04:06:33Z")
> [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](#): > > I’m confused, **Jackmannii**. Are you actually saying that, other than sore losers, people who think things other than academics are important are the ones that dislike the GRE? > > What is there other than academics in applying to grad school? I said that **“people who complain bitterly about standardized tests”** (the GRE is one example, but not the only example of a standardized test) **tend** to fall into those two groups. This statement did not exclude the possibility of other reasons for disliking the GRE or other standardized tests. Maybe I should **bold** everything I want to **emphasize** so there is minimal chance of **misunderstanding**. ☹ I did relatively but not astronomically well on the GRE, maybe a bit better than on other standardized tests I’ve taken in my life. I don’t regard any of them as perfect measures of one’s academic ability or as master predictors of Success in Life. I do think it’s a good idea to have a yardstick that’s not quite as subjective as grades and recommendations, and can give a leg up to people not blessed by family connections and/or favorable ethnic backgrounds. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/46 "2008-12-19T04:12:06Z")
Well, I disagree that they **tend** to fall into those two groups. I’m not trying to prove you wrong by saying that I’m the one exception; I’m saying that my opinion is shared by the majority of people in my graduate program with whom I’ve spoken to about it. And you can forgive me for not realizing that we were talking about standardized tests as a whole, considering the title and topic of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/47 "2008-12-19T04:15:12Z")
I was going to talk about group #2, **Jack**. But it seemed pointless…if we didn’t care about academic achievement, why would we be wanting to go to grad school in the first place? And if those of us who rightly complain about the GRE somehow fell into neither category, why mention them at all? Ah, but “those who complain about the GRE either suck at tests, don’t care about academic achievement, or have a point” isn’t so snappy. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/48 "2008-12-19T04:19:26Z")
Since I scored exceptionally high on the GRE way back when, that leads me to believe it is qute an accurate measure of, er, something or other. 😛 And that was back before there were any fancy-schmanzy computers! ---
**Author:** ![tygre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@tygre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tygre)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/49 "2008-12-19T04:42:19Z")
I took the GRE for grad school – each of the three schools I applied to required it. I scored well above the minimum cutoffs for the schools, but I did notice that the people in my program who reported lower scores…had lower GPA’s and lower grad school grades. I looked at it as yet another hoop to jump through. I kinda enjoy standardised tests anyways. I feel like grad school should take some effort to get in and complete, not just be open to all. I did use the software ETS sent out with it and found it useful to know how the test would flow. Make SURE you get the first couple questions right – they determine your score the most. I was very weak in math (have improved some) and I wound up scoring 100 pts better on the test than I ever did in practice. No idea why. Maybe it was the pressure of performing, lol. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/50 "2008-12-19T05:01:17Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > You’re also a liar because it’s impossible to get 99% percentile on two of the three sections. Depends on when he took it. I don’t remember my percentile numbers for sure, but I think they were all 99’s. I got a 2400 back when that was the highest possible score, in 1989 or 1990. But I’m unusually good at standardized tests - a trait that last proved useful when I took the LSAT ten years ago. Not terribly useful for day to day life, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Boggette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@Boggette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boggette)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/51 "2008-12-19T19:34:51Z")
I took the dang thing 20 years ago. Now I’m applying to colleges for a Masters (on my company’s dime) and the colleges all want my scores. They don’t keep them for 20 years. So, after all this time, I get to take it all over again. If I don’t, it severely limits the schools I can go to. Only some will wave that requirement. Ah well. There are free practice tests at some local colleges and I’ll buy a study guide or two to brush back up. Here’s to hoping I wont screw it up completely. I’m also trying to talk a friend into doing it with me… Would make it a heck of a lot more fun. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/52 "2008-12-19T19:37:15Z")
My best advice for the verbal section is to subscribe to two or three word-of-the-day emails as soon as possible. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/53 "2008-12-19T19:59:45Z")
Let me also chime in with the GRE hate. Schools have access to every grade/transcript/score of your educational career. It is pure laziness that a school would need yet a another standardized test to somehow measure your potential success in the program. Hell yes is it biased, the comment from the music degree person about factoring polynomials is spot on. The only thing the GRE evaluates is ones skill in taking timed standardized tests of their arbitrary format. I consider myself extremely lucky to be in a major university graduate program that does _not_ require a GRE for application. Looking around, many universities are dispensing with the GRE, or making the GRE an optional addition to your application package, and I welcome this trend. Nothing pisses me off more than schools effectively going “Hmmm…yes, you passed all of these classes and got your degree from a certified, qualified, credentialed school and have proven your aptitude for success by every measure that academia has placed on you…but please just one more vocabulary and algebra test? Please? We just don’t trust our many years of evaluating you up to this point…” ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/54 "2008-12-19T20:09:38Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I liked the GRE. Of course, it probably helped that I aced it, but still. Go GRE! I took it on two hours’ sleep and got 720/800/800. I’m sure it’s the only reason I got free tuition to grad school. There, I got Bs, didn’t learn or contribute much at all, and graduated with a credential only. So I’m not sure it’s an indicator of much more than me being a good test taker. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/55 "2008-12-19T20:28:53Z")
> [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](#): > > What is there other than academics in applying to grad school? Life experience? You’re in an academic graduate program, so it’s probably different, but if you’re in a professional graduate program, life experience seems to be a major factor in admission. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/56 "2008-12-19T20:33:34Z")
**Kyla** , you’re totally right. My point still stands for academic programs, though. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/57 "2008-12-19T21:45:05Z")
I enjoyed the heck out of the GRE, especially the Literature subject test. It was like two hours of Extreme English Trivia; what’s not to love? That said, I’m not sure how useful it is as a predictor of academic success, or whether I really deserved the fellowship I got for acing it; if I were a DGS, I’d probably put more weight on the student’s writing sample and statement of purpose, which are probably a much more accurate measure of the student’s academic potential and engagement in the field. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/58 "2008-12-19T21:56:07Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Let me also chime in with the GRE hate. Schools have access to every grade/transcript/score of your educational career. It is pure laziness that a school would need yet a another standardized test to somehow measure your potential success in the program. > > Hell yes is it biased, the comment from the music degree person about factoring polynomials is spot on. The only thing the GRE evaluates is ones skill in taking timed standardized tests of their arbitrary format. > > I consider myself extremely lucky to be in a major university graduate program that does _not_ require a GRE for application. Looking around, many universities are dispensing with the GRE, or making the GRE an optional addition to your application package, and I welcome this trend. > > Nothing pisses me off more than schools effectively going “Hmmm…yes, you passed all of these classes and got your degree from a certified, qualified, credentialed school and have proven your aptitude for success by every measure that academia has placed on you…but please just one more vocabulary and algebra test? Please? We just don’t trust our many years of evaluating you up to this point…” No, they don’t trust. While an admissions officer can glance at a transcript and recognize the top 10, top 20 and top 50 schools - after you get lower down the US News list you don’t really know what type of school they came from. Straight As at one school might be the equivalent of Bs from another. To check to see if you just took the easiest courses from easy graders, they run you through another test. It sucks, but when you have a few thousand applications to review - you want to be able to drop the lowest GPAs and GREs (or GMATs in my case). ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/59 "2008-12-19T22:50:31Z")
The thing is, grad school admissions at good places are so competitive, why not have the GRE requirement? GRE scores correlate with intelligence, so they can serve as a bit of extra evidence. You are likely to have dozens of candidates who ace the ‘relevant’ stuff, so why not use some scores for weeding out? It’s annoying, and I didn’t like having to traipse to london to do it, but it’s not as unfair as it could be. pdts ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729/60 "2008-12-19T23:56:03Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > My objection to it is that you _must_ take it if you have any desire of achieving any sort of graduate-level work ever…and it costs $140. And if you ever want them to send your scores somewhere else, it’s $20 a pop. And if you want to check your scores by phone there’s some cost. And so on. Good grief. $140 isn’t that bad. I know it’s a different situation, but my med school charged an administrative fee of $180 for USMLE Step I. Imagine my surprise when that fee covered neither test registration (which was anther $500) nor the cost of hosting the exam (I’m heading somewhere 15 miles away). The $180 was what they charged to tell us that we had to take the exam. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-the-gre-is-bs/477729.md?page=4)