# I think Watson and Holmes were gay
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [February 29, 2004, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809 "2004-02-29T23:52:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [February 29, 2004, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/1 "2004-02-29T23:52:44Z")
And it’s not even that subtle. Consider:
Dr. Watson gets married in _A Study in Scarlet_, then we never, ever see or hear from Mrs. Watson again.
Watson ostensibly has his own home, but spends most of his free time in Holmes’s grungy bachelor pad on Baker Street.
Nearly every other page describes Holmes and Watson ejaculating at each other.
I don’t know about you, but I am _shocked._
🆒
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### Author:  [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/2 "2004-03-01T00:17:02Z")
The Adventures of the Second Mrs Watson
Review: The Adventures of the Second Mrs Watson by Michael Mallory is a very neat idea stylishly executed. Sherlock Holmes knew where he stood with Mary, the first Mrs Watson, but he thinks that the doctor’s spirited second wife Amelia takes up too much of his friend’s time. She has quite a different view on the matter, and as she is pretty much the detective’s match in ingenuity, intelligence and stubbornness the relationship is not exactly smooth.
Hmmmm. 😉
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/3 "2004-03-01T05:54:07Z")
Was she played by Kate Mulgrew?
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### Author:  [@JerH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerH)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/4 "2004-03-01T15:28:33Z")
I can’t find it, but I’m pretty sure you see Watson’s wife somewhere else - at the start of a story, where Dr. and Mrs. are having a quiet evening at home when Holmes comes by and wants Watson to accompany him on one of his damn fool missions.
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/5 "2004-03-01T15:31:04Z")
Holmes and Watson? Naaaah!
Basil Rathbone & Nigel Bruce, though, wellllllllllllllllllllllllll
_G_
I actually almost convinced an old-movie-buff pal about that!
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/6 "2004-03-01T16:07:41Z")
Watson meets his first wife on a case with Holmes, chasing her missing legacy, a box of gems.
Later, we are given to understand that she has died, & Watson has re-married. He does not discuss his loss in the story; no proper Victorian Gentleman would use a family tragedy as story filler.
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### Author:  [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/7 "2004-03-01T16:31:46Z")
… and Dr. Quest and “Race” Bannon,
… and Batman and Robin,
… and Holmes and YoYo,
ahh, the old jokes are still the best. :rolleyes:
Or maybe he wants to write a pastiche for a “specialty” magazine.
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### Author:  [@yoyo3500](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyo3500)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2004, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/8 "2004-03-01T17:07:25Z")
> [@BMalion](#):
>
> … and Holmes and YoYo,
I don’t appreciate the insinuation… :dubious:
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### Author:  [@Second\_Guest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Second_Guest)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/9 "2004-03-01T17:26:08Z")
> [@JerH](#):
>
> I can’t find it, but I’m pretty sure you see Watson’s wife somewhere else - at the start of a story, where Dr. and Mrs. are having a quiet evening at home when Holmes comes by and wants Watson to accompany him on one of his damn fool missions.
You could be thinking of _The Man with the Twisted Lip_. That begins with the ringing of the Watsons’ doorbell. The visitor is not Holmes, however, but a friend of Mrs. Watson, seeking the aid of Dr. Watson in finding her missing husband. I remember it mainly because Watson’s wife calls him James, not John. That has always bugged me.
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/10 "2004-03-01T18:09:36Z")
You know that, way back when, Rex Stout (Nero Wolfe’s author) suggested at a meeting of the NY Holmes society that Watson was a woman? He took a lot of flak over that.
More recently a writer of canine mysteries has suggested that Watson was a dog.
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### Author:  [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/11 "2004-03-01T19:52:14Z")
> [@Second Guest](#):
>
> You could be thinking of _The Man with the Twisted Lip_I remember it mainly because Watson’s wife calls him James, not John.
Could be a screw-up, but James might be the Watsons’ heretofore unmentioned servant. And yeah, as **Bosda** mentioned, Mary definitely passed on, probably while Holmes was presumed dead at Moriarty’s hands. When Holmes and Watson are reunited, the detective offers his sympathies over Mary’s passing, and presumably if she’d died before Holmes faked his death he would have said something earlier.
–Cliffy
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/12 "2004-03-02T04:30:00Z")
> [@friedo](#):
>
> \*\* I think Watson and Holmes were gay\*\* . . .
> I don’t know about you, but I am _shocked._
Yes, but hardly a new idea.
If you want to be really shocked, read “The Sexual Adventures of Sherlock Holmes” by J. Watson [psuedonym for Larry Townsend], from a third of a century ago (Copyright 1971).
It’s at least R-rated, if not X. And has several jokes and word-plays upon the traditional Sherlockian canon.
For example:
“Ah, Watson,” he said, “I see you have had the serving-boy. Quite an attractive lad, isn’t he?”
“How on earth did you know . . .”
“Elementary,” he replied, “but if I explain it to you, you would know what precautions to take next time round, and that would never do at all.”
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### Author:  [@JerH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerH)
#### Post date: [March 3, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/13 "2004-03-03T22:35:55Z")
> [@Second Guest](#):
>
> You could be thinking of _The Man with the Twisted Lip_. That begins with the ringing of the Watsons’ doorbell. The visitor is not Holmes, however, but a friend of Mrs. Watson, seeking the aid of Dr. Watson in finding her missing husband. I remember it mainly because Watson’s wife calls him James, not John. That has always bugged me.
Yes! That is the one I was thinking of (it’s been a few years, so I got some details wrong, but I do remember her calling her hubby by the wrong name). Thanks.
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### Author:  [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/14 "2004-03-04T00:17:55Z")
Then there’s [_The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066249/), in which Holmes claims that he and Watson are lovers in order to ward off the attentions of a Russian noblewoman who wishes to add Holmes to her collection of sperm donors.
I’m not making this up.
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### Author:  [@Mycroft\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_H)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/15 "2004-03-04T03:56:12Z")
In the spirit of disseminating (maybe the wrong choice of word 😃 ) Straight Dope - Watson and Holmes were not a gay couple. As outlined previously in this thread, Watson was definitely married. He married Mary Morstan, whom he met in the first of the books, but it appears she later died. Evaluation of other stories by hard-core Sherlockians suggests that Watson may have been married two or three times. (The stories do not give sufficient details to really know. Indulging in rational speculation is known as playing The Game.) And, in the stories written by Doyle, Watson writes enough times of women being attractive or comments on their figures that a sexual interest in men would be totally out of character.
Holmes, on the other hand, is presented as non-sexual. He is disinterested, but this is a far cry from being interested in men. Assuming they are homosexual based on them living together or being around each other is a poor assumption and could be applied to the characters **BMalion** mentions above, Rocky and Bullwinkle, Laurel and Hardy, or millions of college roommates across the world.
This has not stopped many people from considering a homosexual relationship between the two. As **[t-bonhamAscc.net](http://t-bonhamAscc.net)** mentioned, there has been at least one story written on that theme. It has also been the subject of cartoons in porn mags and, I believe, at least one gay-porn movie.
The primary reason they could not be gay is because their creator, Arthur Conan Doyle, could never have made them so. He would have been shocked at the suggestion. While Doyle was probably not a homophobe, he unfortunately thought homosexuality was a sickness that could be treated and cured. (The following comes from Dan Stashower’s biography ‘Teller of Tales: The Life of Arthur Conan Doyle,’ pp. 107, 329-330.) In 1889 Doyle had dinner with Oscar Wilde at which both were commissioned to write a book for _Lippincott’s Monthly Magazine_. From that dinner the world got _The Picture of Dorian Gray_ and _The Sign of the Four_. Doyle expressed his respect for Wilde and continued to do so after Wilde was sent to prison for his relationship with Lord Alfred Douglas. Stashower says that Doyle “believed that Wilde’s homosexuality was ‘pathological’ in nature, and that a hospital rather than a police court was the place for its consideration.’”
Doyle presented a similar attitude towards Roger Casement around 1915. Casement and Doyle both worked to publicize the atrocities in the Belgian Congo. Casement later tried to work with the Germans during World War I to cause a revolt against the British in Ireland. He was convicted and sentenced to death. When Doyle and others made pleas for leniency, the British Government circulated among influential people Casement’s personal journals describing his homosexual relations. This was done to squelch the appeals for clemency, and Casement was eventually hanged for treason. Doyle considered Casement to be “a fine man afflicted with mania” of which his homosexuality was just one manifestation.
So in answer to the OP, Holmes and Watson were not gay. There was nothing in the stories, or in the background of the author to make such a case, in spite of whatever conjecture may appear.
In the spirit of the OP – I admit that Watson does publicly ejaculate a lot. And Robert Stephens as Holmes in _The Private Life of SH_ does appear set for a wedding in San Francisco. So, perhaps the jury is still out?
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2004, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/16 "2004-03-04T06:07:18Z")
> [@Mycroft H.](#):
>
> Holmes, on the other hand, is presented as non-sexual.
Please…Holmes had a crush on Irene Adler.
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/17 "2004-03-04T06:22:05Z")
Some people just have to come in and ruin the party.
:mad:
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2004, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/18 "2004-03-04T11:37:09Z")
_raises eyebrow_ Ruin in what way, **friedo**?
(Hamsters ate my post yesterday, unfortunately)
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### Author:  [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/19 "2004-03-04T13:28:26Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#):
>
> Please…Holmes had a crush on Irene Adler.
Not quite, old fellow. Holmes _admired_ Irene Adler. She was, after all, the only woman who outsmarted him. This is not the same as having a “crush” on her.
Good post, **Mycroft H**!
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### Author:  [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-watson-and-holmes-were-gay/231809/20 "2004-03-04T13:37:35Z")
I recently went to Holmes’ house in London, and i must say, it was very ‘shagadelic’.
:rolleyes:
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