# i think zimmern has a point about modren chinese resturants **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 31, 2018, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968 "2018-12-31T07:02:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/21 "2018-12-31T19:15:45Z")
Eh, it works both ways. Those of us who travel have experienced perfectly dreadful “authentic” American, British, Mexican etc. food in other countries. (There are some good examples too, and I have had, for example, both good and bad Mexican food in Thailand.) If you took a bunch of the glop Thais eat and served it in a restaurant in the US, the restaurant would go out of business before the month was out. Thailand also has a fairly popular dish called “American fried rice.” It was invented during the Vietnam War by a Thai cook serving the US base in Nakhon Ratchasima, Thailand. Fried rice with little Vienna sausages and an egg and other stuff thrown in, apparently trying to make the servicemen feel more at home. But that origin has largely been forgotten, and just about all Thais think Americans really do eat that regularly. It’s actually not bad. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/22 "2018-12-31T19:25:00Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I only know what it says in the link you posted, but the link you posted seems to make it relatively clear that the issue is not that the Midwest has good Chinese food, it’s that: > > 1. Zimmern is not Chinese. > 2. From a culinary standpoint, there is no such thing as China. The country is highly diverse in its cuisine, including both a large number of different cuisines developed by the Han people, and also the cuisines of other cultures like Tibetan, Uighur, etc. > 3. While I’m not an expert on China, I did live in Japan for quite some time and there, there are a large variety of sub-cuisines. A shabu shabu restaurant is a completely different place from an okonomiyaki restaurant, a sushi restaurant, a ramen shop, etc. When I see a “Japanese” restaurant in the US and they’re putting wildly different types of Japanese cuisine together into the same menu, I know that I can’t expect much since they aren’t properly doing any one thing. I would expect that China is much the same and that even if you chose a single regional cuisine, that you will still end up with a restaurant that’s a meaningless mishmash of poor implementations of different types of food. > 4. The Chinese have a tendency to eat everything under the sun. Americans eat beef, chicken, pork, onions, corn, carrots, potatoes, wheat, and a smattering of a few other things. Midwesterners are not going to eat a meal of sea cucumber, sparrow spit, roasted scorpion, etc. so even if you could source all of the weird exotic vegetables and spices from China that a midwesterner might be willing to put in their mouth once, you’re really only looking at the recipes that are made with pork or which are vegetarian, if you want to sell anything in the US. It’s fundamentally impossible to sell non-Americanized Chinese food to Americans on the simple basis that there’s simply too drastic a difference between the cuisines. Anyone wanting to sell “Chinese” food in America will produce radically inauthentic “Chinese” food. It’s the only way to make a buck. An actual Chinese restaurant would only work in New York and LA, and would have a very small audience of people who are willing to stick anything in their mouth, and who are willing to pay the cost of sourcing exotic ingredients. 5)“Chile” is the name of a country in South America. There is a category of spices/capsacin-laden fruits known as “_chili_s.” And duck has so much grease in it that it should be considered an energy source, rather than a food. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/23 "2018-12-31T19:27:42Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 5)“Chile” is the name of a country in South America. There is a category of spices/capsacin-laden fruits known as “_chili_s.” > > And duck has so much grease in it that it should be considered an energy source, rather than a food. Chili peppers are often spelled “chiles.” It’s my preferred spelling, for instance. I personally use “chili” for the Tex-Mex dish, and “chile” for the hot peppers. (And there is also the spelling “chilli” with two els.) And sometimes the spelling can make a difference, as in [chile powder vs chili powder](https://www.southernliving.com/seasonings/spices/chile-powder). It’s not a universally accepted distinction, in my experience, so I use “chili powder” for the mix of spices used to flavor Tex-Mex chili, and “powdered chiles” for the pure red pepper powder. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/24 "2018-12-31T19:33:29Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > I agree with your sentiments but just want to mention that **of the many Asian restaurants I have been in I have never seen sandwiches** , subs or onion rings. Wings are another story, they are a part of many Asian cuisines just like chicken feet. > > Dennis [Vietnam is in Asia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1nh_m%C3%AC). You’re obviously not from the OC. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/25 "2018-12-31T19:34:36Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 5)“Chile” is the name of a country in South America. There is a category of spices/capsacin-laden fruits known as “_chili_s.” I’m not sure what that has to do with the topic, or my post… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/26 "2018-12-31T19:35:29Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > [Vietnam is in Asia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1nh_m%C3%AC). You’re obviously not from the OC. Not only that, but perhaps the best submarine-style sandwiches in the bahn mi! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/27 "2018-12-31T19:43:05Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Chili peppers are often spelled “chiles.” It’s my preferred spelling, for instance. I personally use “chili” for the Tex-Mex dish, and “chile” for the hot peppers. (And there is also the spelling “chilli” with two els.) > > And sometimes the spelling can make a difference, as in [chile powder vs chili powder](https://www.southernliving.com/seasonings/spices/chile-powder). It’s not a universally accepted distinction, in my experience, so I use “chili powder” for the mix of spices used to flavor Tex-Mex chili, and “powdered chiles” for the pure red pepper powder. I often find myself reading things aloud to my wife. If I come across a word that will be pronounced “chee-lay,” I’m going to expect it to refer to the country. If someone wants it to be pronounced like “chilly,” they need to spell it in such a way that it can NOT be pronounced “chee-lay.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/28 "2018-12-31T19:44:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I often find myself reading things aloud to my wife. If I come across a word that will be pronounced “chee-lay,” I’m going to expect it to refer to the country. If someone wants it to be pronounced like “chilly,” they need to spell it in such a way that it can NOT be pronounced “chee-lay.” No, they don’t, but that’s outside the scope of this thread. (Besides, “chilly” is the common pronunciation for the country in US English, at least, and the first listed in all the dictionaries I checked; and it’s closer to “chill-eh” not “chil-ay” in Spanish. But, anyhow, back to our regularly scheduled thread.) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/29 "2018-12-31T19:45:59Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 1. “Chile” is the name of a country in South America. There is a category of spices/capsacin-laden fruits known as “_chili_s.” > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m not sure what that has to do with the topic, or my post… Oh, that’s right; you didn’t read the article in the link. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/30 "2018-12-31T19:48:36Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > No, they don’t, but that’s outside the scope of this thread. ( **Besides, “chilly” is the common pronunciation for the country in US English** , at least, and the first listed in all the dictionaries I checked; and it’s closer to “chill-eh” not “chil-ay” in Spanish. But, anyhow, back to our regularly scheduled thread.) Note to self: Remember that you are sharing the planet with people who are often wrong about things. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/31 "2018-12-31T19:49:21Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Note to self: Remember that you are sharing the planet with people who are often wrong about things. Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/32 "2018-12-31T19:55:24Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Thailand also has a fairly popular dish called “American fried rice.” It was invented during the Vietnam War by a Thai cook serving the US base in Nakhon Ratchasima, Thailand. Fried rice with little Vienna sausages and an egg and other stuff thrown in, apparently trying to make the servicemen feel more at home. But that origin has largely been forgotten, and just about all Thais think Americans really do eat that regularly. It’s actually not bad. That sounds pretty good, actually. (Many years back, I was staying at an Israeli hotel that had international-themed dinners. American Food Night featured… some sort of shepherd pie thing). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/33 "2018-12-31T19:55:50Z")
Y’know, on thinking about it a bit more: There are Chinese foods which are breaded and deep fried, and there are onions in Chinese food, too. With all of the variety of cuisine that you’ll find across China, I’d be kind of surprised if there weren’t anywhere that serves deep-fried breaded onion slices. It’s not a complicated dish. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/34 "2018-12-31T19:57:56Z")
Oh, and [Moderating] Let’s drop the hijack on the spelling and/or pronunciation of South American countries, capsicums, and/or dishes made from them. It’s getting heated, and it’s irrelevant to the topic of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/35 "2018-12-31T19:59:42Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > That sounds pretty good, actually. A somewhat similar blend of cultures can be found in Korean cuisine called [budae jjigae](https://mykoreankitchen.com/army-stew-budae-jjigae/), which developed, from my understanding, from using leftover food at American army bases post-Korean War. So it can have stuff like spam, hot dogs, baked beans, etc., whatever proteins can be scavenged up and used in a stew. It is quite tasty. ETA: An, of course, you also have Spam musubi, but that’s Hawaii, so not quite counting as Asia. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/36 "2018-12-31T20:02:24Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Eh, it works both ways. Those of us who travel have experienced\*\* perfectly dreadful “authentic”\*\* American, **British** , Mexican etc. food in other countries. [bolding mine] Must… not… make obvious joke… even if I am British therefore allowed… _ahem_ He might well have a point that Americanised Chinese food isn’t authentic (I dunno- UK Chinese food is different again, from what I can tell), but there’s a way to say that that isn’t just crapping on others. Like people have said, it’s not as though the people, mostly Chinese immigrants, who opened Chinese restaurants cook the stuff they do because they _can’t_ do authentic Chinese food, it’s because it’s expensive or impractical to get the ingredients or it’s just plain not as popular as the Americanised version. Calling a whole bunch of other people’s food ‘horseshit’ in an attempt to make his own place sound better just makes him sound like kind of a dick. I doubt he’s tried every single Chinese restaurant in the US, despite lumping them all together, and I also doubt he’d be doing significantly better or more ‘authentic’ food with the same budget and situation most of the people he’s criticising are working with. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/37 "2018-12-31T20:10:15Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Like people have said, it’s not as though the people, mostly Chinese immigrants, who opened Chinese restaurants cook the stuff they do because they _can’t_ do authentic Chinese food, it’s because it’s expensive or impractical to get the ingredients or it’s just plain not as popular as the Americanised version. Exactly. You make do with the local ingredients and tastes, and you create an extension of your cuisine. I look at Chinese-American and Italian-American foods as regional cuisines propogated by the ethnic diaspora abroad. So, in that sense, I think of them as an “authentic” arm of the source cuisine. So just like you have Sichuan and Hunan and Cantonese regions, I also thing of San Francisco and New York branches of Chinese cuisine, or even one large American region that is heavily influenced by Cantonese food, but modified to local ingredients and tastes. That said, where I live, there’s plenty of ethnic places where you can get food fairly close to cuisine as eaten in the home country, in addition to more localized variation on the ethnic cuisine. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/38 "2018-12-31T20:14:19Z")
Here’s the menu for his restaurant: [https://luckycricket.net/dinner/](https://luckycricket.net/dinner/) Seems pretty similar to every other semi-upscale (as in one step above takeout Orange Chicken) Chinese restaurant out there. Also, it has pretty mediocre reviews, but not sure how many of those are just from review bombing after this came out. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/39 "2018-12-31T20:14:46Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > I agree with your sentiments but just want to mention that of the many Asian restaurants I have been in I have never seen sandwiches, subs or onion rings. Wings are another story, they are a part of many Asian cuisines just like chicken feet. I’ve seen Chinese restaurants with a little “American” section: a burger, chicken wings, fries and/or with a kid’s section that has your hot dog and chicken nuggets. But it seemed an afterthought. Still, my Midwestern Chinese restaurant experience is largely limited to the two places near me that do delivery and a handful of other locations. I did once duck into a dumpy little Chinese food joint in a residential part of Washington DC that also had a full on menu board of pizza, calzones, burgers, fried chicken, etc. I got actual (American) Chinese food which wasn’t especially good. I think that’s less because of the split menu and more because not every dumpy little restaurant is a charming find; often they’re just a dump. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968/40 "2018-12-31T20:19:11Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Calling a whole bunch of other people’s food ‘horseshit’ in an attempt to make his own place sound better just makes him sound like kind of a dick. I doubt he’s tried every single Chinese restaurant in the US, despite lumping them all together, and I also doubt he’d be doing significantly better or more ‘authentic’ food with the same budget and situation most of the people he’s criticising are working with. This exactly. And consider Zimmern’s restaurant is blending “Sichuan, Xi’an, and Hong Kong cuisine” which are regions that happen to be about thousand miles apart (well Sichuan from Hong Kong anyway), so how ‘authentic’ is he really getting? Not even getting to the denigration of Chinese folk who own these restaurants who can’t just waste money on hoping the folks in their community will embrace a more authentic East Asian cuisine (it reminds me of that Seinfeld episode when Jerry convinces Babu to make his restaurant Pakistani) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-think-zimmern-has-a-point-about-modren-chinese-resturants/826968.md?page=3)