# I Told You So **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850 "2004-11-03T21:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/141 "2004-11-05T20:35:15Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > That’s odd, I don’t _remember_ checking a little box when I paid my money to register on the SDMB stating that, if I was a liberal, I authorized **Hentor the Barbarian** to speak for me… You must also have forgotten to check the one marked, “The summer sun does not shine out of my ass, and I am not the only one posting on this messageboard. So if a post doesn’t apply to me, I am not required to respond”. Let’s see if we can develop a little perspective here, shall we? I don’t really have time to qualify every fucking thing I post with a long list of those to whom it applies and those to whom it does not, so you may have to pay attention. If I address whiny lefties, and you’re not whining (or not a leftie), then I am not addressing you. If you are, then I am. See how it works? Sheesh. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/142 "2004-11-05T20:58:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You must also have forgotten to check the one marked, “The summer sun does not shine out of my ass, and I am not the only one posting on this messageboard. So if a post doesn’t apply to me, I am not required to respond”. … That is all well and good except for the fact that you, as a poster, tend to use language like “you people”, “you lefties” or “you liberals” quite a bit. This leaves on with the impression that you are painting with a rather large brush and it is not a wild leap to assume that if I am a Liberal and you are making comments about “you Liberals” that by extension you are talking about me. If that is not the case, and you are only talking about a specific poster, just say so. Taking the time to communicate what you really mean is (IMO) never time wasted and avoids much misunderstanding and hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/143 "2004-11-05T21:25:15Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > That is all well and good except for the fact that you, as a poster, tend to use language like “you people”, “you lefties” or “you liberals” quite a bit. This leaves on with the impression that you are painting with a rather large brush and it is not a wild leap to assume that if I am a Liberal and you are making comments about “you Liberals” that by extension you are talking about me. > > If that is not the case, and you are only talking about a specific poster, just say so. Taking the time to communicate what you really mean is (IMO) never time wasted and avoids much misunderstanding and hurt. This is a valid point. I’m guilty of doing this myself, and yet taking umbrage when it’s done to me. It’s something I really need to work on. But … there should be some recognition that, at some level, things like this happen. By this I mean that rioters in San Francisco hurt the liberal cause, because people will see that and THINK, “Oh, there go those liberals.” In the same way, Ann Coulter’s vicious hyperbole calling liberals treasonous hurts all conservatives, because people hear this and think, “Oh, those conservatives are so reactionary.” I am absolutely convinced that empty-headed pronouncements from Cher about gays being herded into one state, and from Susan Sarandon with her “Statement of Conscience” that pledged her alliance to those countries attacked by the US, did more harm to Kerry’s campaign than good… not because Kerry authorized or endorsed their views, but because people heard these things and thought, “Oh, there go the crazy liberals again.” And successfully pinning Kerry as the second-most liberal Senator completed the square, so to speak. In any event, I’ll try to work on my own tendency to reason from the specific to the general. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/144 "2004-11-05T21:42:11Z")
I will not pass up this opportunity to express complete agreement with friend **Bricker**. Probably won’t get another. Why is my room full of monkeys? What explains the sudden presence of aerodynamic pork? ---
**Author:** ![TonyF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@TonyF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonyF)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/145 "2004-11-05T21:47:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If I address whiny lefties, and you’re not whining (or not a leftie), then I am not addressing you. If you are, then I am. Don’t tread into strawman territory, is all. “And that goes for all you fucking smug, stupid people on the right.” ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/146 "2004-11-05T21:48:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, let’s mention this. Bush was confident about WMD, and he ultimately was wrong. For this, he’s a liar, a fraud, a murderer. You were confident and wrong too, but you were nobly try to save our country from devastatingly poor decision making when it comes to both domestic and foreign policy. You are a downtrodden hero. > > You pathetic fuck. One set of standards for you, and another for the rest of the world. You know nothing, you see nothing, you understand nothing, you are nothing - but a classless loser. Yet WMD was a vital question. A question of objective fact sustained by evidence and a source of fertile debate. Where were **Bricker’s** uncanny powers of insight and prediction as this debate unfolded? Was **Bricker** perhaps holding them in reserve to assist a wager on a 50/50 propostion? Thence to bask in the glory of having guessed lucky. Or was **Bricker** in his timid and modest way restrained from voicing an honest opinion by the possible consequences for the Republican Party? Who knows what uses accusations of hypocrisy and ignorance can serve. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/147 "2004-11-05T22:13:54Z")
> [@sevastopol](#): > > Yet WMD was a vital question. A question of objective fact sustained by evidence and a source of fertile debate. Where were **Bricker’s** uncanny powers of insight and prediction as this debate unfolded? > > Was **Bricker** perhaps holding them in reserve to assist a wager on a 50/50 propostion? Thence to bask in the glory of having guessed lucky. > > Or was **Bricker** in his timid and modest way restrained from voicing an honest opinion by the possible consequences for the Republican Party? Who knows what uses accusations of hypocrisy and ignorance can serve. Ummm… what? Had I applied my uncanny powers to this question, I would have reached the same conclusion that Congress did: WMDs are there. I freely admit that I would have been wrong. But I would not have proclaimed myself CERTAIN. I don’t follow your third paragraph at all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/148 "2004-11-05T22:41:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …I would have reached the same conclusion that Congress did: WMDs are there. I freely admit that I would have been wrong… > > But I would not have proclaimed myself CERTAIN. GeeDubya did. He proclaimed himself certain. He was wrong. He’s not paying the cost for it. Our kids are. I don’t much like that. So he gets a Mulligan, a do-over? He’s getting the hang of it now, and, heck, he’s such a nice guy, he deserves another whack at it? You go to a surgeon, he takes off the wrong leg, but he was certain, and he’s really sincere and a nice guy, and you’d take one of your kids to him? Really? And, no, Congress said no such thing. Individual members said so, but damn sure Paul Wellstone didn’t! Damn sure John Kerry didn’t! What Kerry said was the President needed such authorization in order to do what was needed. We give the cop a gun, in case he needs it. We don’t give him a gun to plug some guy and then search the corpse afterwards to find out if he shot the right guy. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/149 "2004-11-05T22:43:49Z")
Please, somebody just tell me that I don’t have to read _Atlas Shrugged_. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/150 "2004-11-05T22:52:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You go to a surgeon, he takes off the wrong leg, It’s more like he took off the correct leg and the post-op biopsy didn’t find cancer as predicted but all the gangrene that was also diagnosed was there and the leg had to go in any event. > [@](#): > > Damn sure John Kerry didn’t! What Kerry said was the President needed such authorization in order to do what was needed. [Whereas Iraq both poses a continuing threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region and remains in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations by, among other things, continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability, actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability, and supporting and harboring terrorist organizations; (snip) Whereas Iraq’s demonstrated capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction, the risk that the current Iraqi regime will either employ those weapons to launch a surprise attack against the United States or its Armed Forces or provide them to international terrorists who would do so, and the extreme magnitude of harm that would result to the United States and its citizens from such an attack, combine to justify action by the United States to defend itself; (snip) Whereas the United States is determined to prosecute the war on terrorism and Iraq’s ongoing support for international terrorist groups combined with its development of weapons of mass destruction in direct violation of its obligations under the 1991 cease-fire and other United Nations Security Council resolutions make clear that it is in the national security interests of the United States and in furtherance of the war on terrorism that all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions be enforced, including through the use of force if necessary;]([http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf](http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf)) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/151 "2004-11-05T22:56:59Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Please, somebody just tell me that I don’t have to read _Atlas Shrugged_. You don’t have to read _Atlas Shrugged_. Or _The Fountainhead_ either. Yet. Somebody, in another thread, made an observation that unfortunately got sluffed over. It was to the general extent that you, **Bricker** , are focused on **process** – with the implication, to the extent that you sometimes ignore **content**. Worth thinking about, at least. As for me, I’m taking a bit more philosophic view of things. Dissent has not been forbidden in America, at least yet and to the majority extent. (There are a few amazing exceptions to that rule.) But I have learned not to trust in the good hearts or will of the majority – if they exist, they’re charily used. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/152 "2004-11-05T23:04:30Z")
Well, that gangrene stuff is an interesting, albeit pointless, reworking of my metaphor. Do you mean anything by it, or were your fingers bored? And thanks a lot for showing me the wording of the resolution! Gosh, I’m such an illiterate dumfuk, I had no idea! If it weren’t for you, I still wouldn’t. Gimme a break, **Manny**. I got my faults, stupid ain’t on the list. That was the resolution, Kerry could either vote for it or not. I think he made a big mistake, I think he trusted a man not to be trusted. I think he would have amended the resolution if he had a chance in hell of suceeding. He made the best of Hobbes Fork. As well, you know as well as I know that our spineless congresscritters were stampeded by GeeDubya riding 9/11 fever for all it was worth. If 9/11 hadn’t happened, would he have had a snowballs chance of getting that resolution passed? We both know better. So do us both a favor and don’t pretend I’m stupid. I know what the fuckin’ resolution said, you know I know. If you’re gonna be snarky, could you at least be funny? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/153 "2004-11-05T23:05:41Z")
I don’t think you’re stupid. I think you’re a lying sack of shit. Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/154 "2004-11-05T23:06:17Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Please, somebody just tell me that I don’t have to read Atlas Shrugged. Not all of it. Just John Galt’s radio speech. [sub]Where’s the :evil: smilie?[/sub] Thanks for the link **manny**. Some interesting stuff there. > [@](#): > > SEC. 2. SUPPORT FOR UNITED STATES DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS. > The Congress of the United States supports the efforts by > the President to— > (1) strictly enforce through the United Nations Security > Council all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq > and encourages him in those efforts; and > (2) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security > Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, > evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies > with all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq. > SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES. > (a) AUTHORIZATION.—The President is authorized to use the > Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary > and appropriate in order to— > (1) defend the national security of the United States against > the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and > (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council > resolutions regarding Iraq. > (b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION.—In connection with the > exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force > the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter > as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising > such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of > Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his > determination that— > (1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic > or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately > protect the national security of the United States against the > continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead > to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council > resolutions regarding Iraq; and > (2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent > with the United States and other countries continuing to take > the necessary actions against international terrorist and terrorist > organizations, including those nations, organizations, or > persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist > attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001. There’s a whole lot of “Security Council” stuff in there, and it seems to set a pretty high bar for non-UN actions. Gotta justify that it wasn’t possible to go the diplomatic route and that Iraq was a sponsor of terrorists. I’d love to see that report. Wonder if I can find it. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/155 "2004-11-05T23:27:38Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > I don’t think you’re stupid. I think you’re a lying sack of shit… Is that the best you got? Christ, **Manny** , you even insult like a New York pussy. You best stay out of Texas, they’ll saddle you and ride you home with a corncob up your Nixon. Best avoid MN as well, cold weather shrivels your pecker about an inch, and you wouldn’t be an improvement as a female. Just to be clear: I have never once knowingly posted a false statement (well, outside of jocularity, of course). If you can prove otherwise, do it. Since you can’t, you can suck the brown grease out of my ass, buttmunchkin! (Christ! Kids these days, no respect…) ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/156 "2004-11-05T23:45:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …I would have reached the same conclusion that Congress did: WMDs are there. > [@elucidator](#): > > Congress said no such thing. Individual members said so, but damn sure Paul Wellstone didn’t! Damn sure John Kerry didn’t! > [@](#): > > **John Kerry** > I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force – if necessary – to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security > [@](#): > > **John Kerry** > without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. He miscalculated an eight-year war with Iran. He miscalculated the invasion of Kuwait. He miscalculated America’s response to that act of naked aggression. He miscalculated the result of setting oil rigs on fire. He miscalculated the impact of sending scuds into Israel and trying to assassinate an American President. He miscalculated his own military strength. He miscalculated the Arab world’s response to his misconduct. And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. > > So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. And, for whatever it’s worth, Paul Wellstone also believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, his “no” vote on the force authorization notwithstanding. ([cite](http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200210/03_zdechlikm_wellstoneiraq/)) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/157 "2004-11-06T00:06:29Z")
You want to engage in reasoning with me, **Manny** , you gotta apologize for calling me a lying sack of shit first. I’m a forgiving guy, but my dignity ain’t yours to wipe your butt with. Failing that, go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/158 "2004-11-06T00:31:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You must also have forgotten to check the one marked, “The summer sun does not shine out of my ass, and I am not the only one posting on this messageboard. So if a post doesn’t apply to me, I am not required to respond”. > > Let’s see if we can develop a little perspective here, shall we? > > I don’t really have time to qualify every fucking thing I post with a long list of those to whom it applies and those to whom it does not, so you may have to pay attention. If I address whiny lefties, and you’re not whining (or not a leftie), then I am not addressing you. If you are, then I am. First of all, you don’t know me, and you don’t know my ass. Second of all, let’s examine your precise quote, shall we? > [@Shodan](#): > > My gosh, you lefties are the whiniest batch of sore losers in captivity. Nope, that’s not addressed to “whiny lefties” or “certain lefties” or “lefties who do not have ‘the’ in the middle of their usernames”. It’s just addressed to lefties, ie, all SDMB lefties. That includes me. So you can take your “use vague and insulting terms to nastily describe large groups of people, and then chicken out like the coward I am when I’m called on it” posting style and ram it up your ass. Not “the ass of all conservatives”. Not “all you fucking Bush Supporters’ asses”. But your own personal, specific ass. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/159 "2004-11-06T00:55:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And, no, Congress said no such thing. Individual members said so, but damn sure Paul Wellstone didn’t! Damn sure John Kerry didn’t! What Kerry said was the President needed such authorization in order to do what was needed. We give the cop a gun, in case he needs it. We don’t give him a gun to plug some guy and then search the corpse afterwards to find out if he shot the right guy. > [@Senator John Kerry](#): > > I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force – if necessary – to disarm Saddam Hussein because **I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security** I’ll get you a paper and carcons for your written apology. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850/160 "2004-11-06T01:02:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ll get you a paper and carcons for your written apology. Also some carbons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-told-you-so/272850.md?page=9)