# I took a breathalyzer and got fired even though I clinically passed (legal question) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 19, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406 "2015-03-19T18:28:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/121 "2015-03-22T04:49:59Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > [http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/25/new-hampshire-doctor-reportedly-shows-up-to-work-drunk-gets-suspended/](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/25/new-hampshire-doctor-reportedly-shows-up-to-work-drunk-gets-suspended/) > [Sacramento ICU Doctor's License Suspended For Practicing Drunk - CBS Sacramento](http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/06/15/sacramento-icu-doctors-license-suspended-for-practicing-drunk/) > [Doctor ‘drunk at work, wrote lewd notes on medical charts and left woman in labour to have sex with patient' | Irish Independent](http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/doctor-drunk-at-work-wrote-lewd-notes-on-medical-charts-and-left-woman-in-labour-to-have-sex-with-patient-30772742.html) > [http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Doctor-Jason-Lane-Arrived-at-Hospital-With-BAC-of-039-Medical-Board-271466611.html](http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Doctor-Jason-Lane-Arrived-at-Hospital-With-BAC-of-039-Medical-Board-271466611.html) Not one of these cites is even remotely applicable to the argument. The doctors in two of these cites were more than double the legal limit. The OP was less than 1/4, not enough to show signs of visible intoxication. In the other two there was heavier drinking combined with other offenses such as inappropriate sexual behavior and lewd notes written on patient charts. What; did you think you could just post a bunch of links and they wouldn’t be read? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/122 "2015-03-22T12:14:16Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > I’m not sure about IN state law–born there, got out as soon as earthly possible. But is there nowhere that would classify alcoholism as a disease/disability, and thus worthy of protection? The thing is, you have to be diagnosed or declared to be suffering from alcoholism. I’m not a lawyer and therefore am unfamiliar with the nuances here, but because showing up under the influence does not automatically mean you are an alcoholic the burden on is on the fired employee to prove they’re an alcoholic. Not likely if they’re still in a state of denial. What I got from my workplace during orientation (and I work for a pretty relaxed company regarding use for Indiana) is that you have let the company know you have an alcohol/drug problem BEFORE you get into a disciplinary situation to claim protected status. At which point certain things, like the use of forklifts for example, will be off limits for you until you demonstrate some sort of recovery and ability to be reliably sober during work hours. > [@](#): > > I ask because I’m living and working in NY and my company wouldn’t fire someone based on this. They’d send them to rehab and keep their job open per FMLA guidelines. IF someone was otherwise an exemplary employee AND no one got hurt/no damage or significant loss occurred then my company MIGHT do that… but they are not _required_ to do this. If someone is otherwise a problem then it become a really easy way to get rid of a perceived troublemaker. > [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Show me where are surgeon ever got fired for a 0.019 BAC and you may have a point. Last time I had surgery, the surgeon was on time and everyone was SHOCKED. At the shitty blue collar job I work at, if you’re late 3 times you’re done. Well, one difference with doctors is that they can be involved in time-consuming emergencies with a prior patient. There are legitimate reasons for a doctor to be late. Of course, that’s not always the case, there are irresponsible doctors out there. And drug-abusing doctors. We have a doc on the Dope that’s an addict who has been sober for quite some time now who may or may not choose to further elaborate on the doctor end of the situation. One problem with getting a cite on doctors fired or otherwise punished for drug abuse is the whole medical privacy issue. I know about doctors, nurses, and other medical personnel who were fired for showing up blasted at work, but I can’t give details due to medical privacy laws. I can state I used to work at a clinic that treated drug addicts, which is where I encountered some of these people, but at most they would be anecdotes with names and identifying details changed. There ARE stories of doctors being fired for drug issues… but you have to look really hard for them. A quick Google is unlikely to turn up anything substantial. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > And diagnosing alcoholism isn’t an exact science - especially if you haven’t started picking up the physical symptoms. Its a series of behaviors. Which include alcohol interfering with your life (which it has). He needs two more. Ever blacked out? Have increased your tolerance? Spend a lot of time drinking? > > He’s got the rationalizing part that co-dependants are so familiar with down pat “I wasn’t legally drunk.” “I had a reason to celebrate.” > > I’d say that this thread and the St. Pauli Girl thread together INDICATE he should think about whether he is an alcoholic. At the very least its worth reevaluating his relationship with alcohol and admitting his behavior is his responsibility. ^ This is what I mean by “further information”. Based _solely_ on what appears in this thread there is no way to “diagnose” alcoholism. Multiple instances that indicate a problem with alcohol are a different story, although I’d still hesitate to make a declaration. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/123 "2015-03-22T14:27:51Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Not one of these cites is even remotely applicable to the argument. The doctors in two of these cites were more than double the legal limit. The OP was less than 1/4, not enough to show signs of visible intoxication. In the other two there was heavier drinking combined with other offenses such as inappropriate sexual behavior and lewd notes written on patient charts. > > What; did you think you could just post a bunch of links and they wouldn’t be read? The Sacramento link certainly qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/124 "2015-03-22T14:28:53Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Not one of these cites is even remotely applicable to the argument. The doctors in two of these cites were more than double the legal limit. The OP was less than 1/4, not enough to show signs of visible intoxication. In the other two there was heavier drinking combined with other offenses such as inappropriate sexual behavior and lewd notes written on patient charts. > > What; did you think you could just post a bunch of links and they wouldn’t be read? Do you think there’s a lot of news stories about blue collar people getting fired for blowing .019? No,because it’s not an interesting story. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/125 "2015-03-22T14:40:37Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Do you think there’s a lot of news stories about blue collar people getting fired for blowing .019? No,because it’s not an interesting story. That’s true, there is that obvious flaw in my logic. I thought it might slip by unnoticed. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/126 "2015-03-22T14:40:44Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Do you think there’s a lot of news stories about blue collar people getting fired for blowing .019? No,because it’s not an interesting story. Agreed, I could tell you some anecdotes about MD’s I’ve seen sanctioned equivalently to the OP, but it’s not in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/127 "2015-03-22T14:46:22Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > The Sacramento link certainly qualifies. No it doesn’t; the article claims the doctor was drunk. The Op was not drunk, not even close. There is one undeniable difference in the way surgeons are treated though, according to [this](http://www.physicianhealthprogram.com/addiction-news/alcoholism-drug-abuse-doctors/) article: “However, the findings do beg the question as to why it is that every other safety-sensitive profession has random drug screenings, while surgeons do not,” ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/128 "2015-03-22T15:02:27Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > No it doesn’t; the article claims the doctor was drunk. The Op was not drunk, not even close. > > There is one undeniable difference in the way surgeons are treated though, according to [this](http://www.physicianhealthprogram.com/addiction-news/alcoholism-drug-abuse-doctors/) article: > > “However, the findings do beg the question as to why it is that every other safety-sensitive profession has random drug screenings, while surgeons do not,” Yes, but they don’t offer any evidence more compelling than ‘smelling like a brewery’. Totally with you on the testing thing, though. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/129 "2015-03-22T15:52:54Z")
Gosh, I’m happy in don’t live in the USA. If you come in hungover to work they sack you, and they think you’re an alcoholic. If you compliment someone on their clothes or make-up (other thread), you have to get paranoid about sexual harassment. No fun at all. Long live Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/130 "2015-03-22T16:44:05Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > Gosh, I’m happy in don’t live in the USA. If you come in hungover to work they sack you, and they think you’re an alcoholic. > > If you compliment someone on their clothes or make-up (other thread), you have to get paranoid about sexual harassment. > > No fun at all. > > Long live Europe. You’d have to be nuts to be a European citizen and want to emigrate to the US. For most other places though, coming to the US is an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/131 "2015-03-22T17:02:50Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > What; did you think you could just post a bunch of links and they wouldn’t be read? I spent 30 seconds Googling for stories about doctors who were fired for alcohol. They weren’t hard to find, I just chose the ones on the top of the list. You didn’t specify what precisely you were looking for so don’t blame me for making what I thought was a reasonable attempt to provide counter-examples. As others have said, the more narrowly defined your acceptable criteria are the more difficult it’s going to be to find exact matches. You you accept that doctors are fired for alcohol use on the job? If so, we’re just trying to identify the line where the two situations are comparable. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/132 "2015-03-22T17:22:18Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I spent 30 seconds Googling for stories about doctors who were fired for alcohol. They weren’t hard to find, I just chose the ones on the top of the list. You didn’t specify what precisely you were looking for so don’t blame me for making what I thought was a reasonable attempt to provide counter-examples. As others have said, the more narrowly defined your acceptable criteria are the more difficult it’s going to be to find exact matches. > > You you accept that doctors are fired for alcohol use on the job? If so, we’re just trying to identify the line where the two situations are comparable. I think our differences in opinion are due to our differences in reading reading comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/133 "2015-03-23T02:13:56Z")
Whether or not the OP is an alchoholic I think we can all agree that he has some sort of problem if 1 - He shows up to work hungover and smelling of alcohol and thinks that’s acceptable. 2 - Thinks that being able to legally drive is the standard for a acceptable BAC in all situations. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/134 "2015-03-23T02:27:44Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > This is just silly. One need not be religious at all to find value in the “higher power” aspect of AA. That “higher power” could be just about anything the person chooses. Mine was the group itself, but I’m like that. ETA: One guy called me a vampire sucking all the power out of the group, but I think he was looking for an excuse to drink. Or he’s nuts. Lotta nuts in AA. Another vote for “this wasn’t the first incident” and “they didn’t want to pay their half of his UI,” with a side of “once it hit management he was fucked.” As for Europe’s attitude toward drinking on the job, I’ve been reading a lot about bad decisions in history and have concluded that we’d live in a very different world if our leaders 200 or 2000 years ago had been sober. ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/135 "2015-03-23T23:57:05Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > This is just silly. One need not be religious at all to find value in the “higher power” aspect of AA. That “higher power” could be just about anything the person chooses. Princess Stolichnaya? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/136 "2015-03-24T04:19:50Z")
two more thoughts - 1. If I read the OP correctly - he voluntarily went for a breathalyser test. This probably means that he somehow “challenged” management, or told them they were wrong, or argued his case? So the result may be as much about getting rid of a troublemaker as it was the positive result. Especially if he wasn’t very judicious in his choice of words 2. Dad used to work as a “lollipop man” in Australia, the people he worked for certainly had a “zero tolerance” policy - he even mentioned in the past something about “blowing in the bag” before being allowed to sign out company vehicles. I also know that one young chap got caught drinking surreptitously on the job - and the whole team was breath tested after he was escorted off the worksite. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/137 "2015-03-24T06:09:15Z")
Maybe that’s because they were working with children, and there’s nothing more precious than the life of a child ? Still, I looked up lollipop men to make sure there was not some other meaning — like say, the pilot of a lollipop shaped airship, or someone who sticks manhole covers to poles, or a benevolent old gentleman who darts from the bushes in parks donating sweets to children, “_This is our secret, little one._” — and found this sad tale of a Scots-African lollipop man in Dumbarton fired for high-fiving the kids. \*Nkosana Mdikane, 74, is known as “Scotland’s happiest lollipop man” due to his singing and dancing at work. West Dunbartonshire Council said safety fears were behind the decision. A statement from West Dunbartonshire Council said: “All patrollers are instructed when crossing children over a road to remain static with one hand on their stick and the other stretched outwards. This ensures that they can be seen and effectively provides a barrier between school pupils and the traffic.”\* … _Soon after beginning work at Aitkenbar Primary School and St Peter’s Primary School in Dumbarton he became a local celebrity, with some drivers even admitting to taking detours past the schools in order to watch Mr Mdikane’s dance routines._ BBC —\*\* [Council orders lollipop man to stop ‘high-fiving’ children](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-31638993)\*\* So you don’t have to drink to have a good time — nor to get fired. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/138 "2015-03-24T06:23:59Z")
“Captain Gutgore Blooddrink.” Did you have the Awesome McCoolname when you started this thread? I remember reading the first page of the thread and not even noticing it. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/139 "2015-03-24T13:55:44Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > “Captain Gutgore Blooddrink.” Did you have the Awesome McCoolname when you started this thread? I remember reading the first page of the thread and not even noticing it. I believe he used to be **Filthy Beast of Meat and Hair** , but changed that quite a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406/140 "2015-03-24T16:24:24Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Whether or not the OP is an alchoholic I think we can all agree that he has some sort of problem if > 1 - He shows up to work hungover and smelling of alcohol and thinks that’s acceptable. > 2 - Thinks that being able to legally drive is the standard for a acceptable BAC in all situations. Yeah, but his problem could be improper socialization, not a problem with alcohol per se. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-took-a-breathalyzer-and-got-fired-even-though-i-clinically-passed-legal-question/715406.md?page=8)