# "I tore up that silly pre-nup." So? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 10, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392 "2004-04-10T23:32:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/1 "2004-04-10T23:32:32Z")
There’s some stupid commercial running now in which a hapless rich husband rips up the pre-nup only to find that the wife’s a golddigger after all. So my question is, what legal effect would physically ripping up the pre-nup have? More generally, what effect does unilaterally ripping up a contract have? My feeling is “none” but I’m always willing to be corrected. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/2 "2004-04-11T01:37:41Z")
Depends if you rip it up before or after you sign it. ---
**Author:** ![KP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a9adbd/32.png) [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/3 "2004-04-11T01:46:53Z")
Primarily, he would have been tearing up (and presumably discarding) his _proof_ of the text of the prenup. Of course, his lawyer could try and get a copy during discovery or with a _subpoena duces tecum_ but how much would you be the golddigger “lost” her copy? Most judges, faced with disagreeing “he says, she says” recollections of the terms of a prenup would simply follow the usual guidelines. Even if he had witnesses who had read the original agreement, and testified to certain stipulations, it would be iffy. There are simply too many ways to tangle the issue with uncertainty. Heck, even with a pre-nup, things can get iffy. The moral is, of course, don’t tear up a prenup that was meant to protect you. If, for some reason, you choose to disregard it in a way that favors the other party, the two of you can still agree to new terms during the divorce. “I know the pre-nup says she can’t claim the mansion, but my job as a jet-setting financier precludes my raising the kids with the kind of full-time attention they deserve, and I want them to grow up in the family mansion. I was going to leave it to them anyway.” (sloppy example - it would probably be better to give her a lease on the mansion, rather than free title, if you don’t want [ex]wifey to sell the place to support her boytoy in the style to which he wishes to become accustomed] The prenup doesn’t control the transfer/division of assets; the final divorce papers do. A prenup is only a factor to be considered, albeit often an important one. ---
**Author:** ![KP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a9adbd/32.png) [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/4 "2004-04-11T01:51:14Z")
Oh - and _“Dammit, Jim, I’m a doctor not a lawyer!”_ Unless you like the idea of a lawyer doing a rectal exam on you, don’t use my posts as legal advice – because if you do, as sure as the SDMB hampsters are slow, sooner or later some lawyer _will_ do a rectal exam on you. [Metaphorically, one hopes] ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/5 "2004-04-11T05:22:47Z")
This was one of the (several) problems with the movie _Intolerable Cruelty_ - so you rip up your pre-nup. So what? Dosen’t your lawyer have a copy? Don’t you have to file it with somebody or something? If one person could just rip it up dosen’t that void the whole concept of a pre-nup? In other words, the movie means to tell me that if Mr Big has a bazillion dollars, and I marry him straight from the poorhouse with a prenup, and I rip it up, it’s void? Well, then what’s the point of having one? Surely voiding a prenup is something you have to do with your lawyer, right? Somebody with more legal knowledge than me, please clear this up. Don’t want them sniffing around after my money, after all. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tokyo\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@Tokyo\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tokyo_Mann)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/6 "2004-04-11T06:57:41Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > More generally, what effect does unilaterally ripping up a contract have? My feeling is “none” but I’m always willing to be corrected. IANAL, but my understanding of contracts is that they can be modified or ended only by mutual agreement. A contract (mutual agreement) does not have to be written, (except in the case of real estate, if memory servers right) but it sure helps avoid “he said / she said” disputes. I would guess that the fact that the husband had ripped up the pre-nup would be evidence (but not proof, of course) that they had agreed to void the pre-nup. So, my WAG is that if you are the golddigger, you would be much better off having your spouse sign something specifically stating the pre-nup is void. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/7 "2004-04-11T07:08:18Z")
If a pre-nup is recorded (which they should be) at the courthouse, the Deed and Recordation Office will have a signed copy, so tearing it up is useless unless you somehow rescind the copy that the City/County Clerk has recorded. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/8 "2004-04-11T12:40:45Z")
I didn’t see the movie, so I don’t know the circumstances of how the pre-nup was ripped up. That said, if one party to a contract destroys his copy, that act, taken alone, does not void the contract. (OT: Wills are not contracts. Intentional, physical destruction of a will by the person who signed it is generally considered to revoke it.) OTOH, if Ms. Golddigger asks Mr. Rich to release her from the terms of the pre-nup, and he dramtically shows his assent by ripping it up, a court most likely would find that the parties had agreed to terminate the agreement. (I could make an argument that she didn’t give any consideration for his agreement to terminate his rights, but I think I’d lose.) Of course, this assumes that Mr. Rich doesn’t (or can’t) dispute the facts described in the previous paragraph. Some claims in prior posts here are not accurate. A lawyer is not neccessary to release one’s rights under a contract, although if that’s your intent, it’s probably a good idea to consult one. Pre-nups are not recorded or filed anywhere. Even if the pre-nup in question were filed somewhere, a valid termination can occur without “rescinding” the filed copy, whatever that means. So **Tokyo\_Mann** was pretty close. MY only quibble is that, while contracts can be oral, there are exceptions, and the real estate exception is just one of these. Usual disclaimer. IAAL, but probably not in your state, and I’m not your lawyer. This is general information and not meant to be reliable legal advice. See a lawyer licensed in your state for that. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/9 "2004-04-11T15:52:25Z")
IANAL, but I employ them and have to deal with lost contracts on an almost weekly basis. As said before, not only does tearing up a contract (with certain IMO odd exceptions) not void it, but neither does losing it, having it be stolen, sending all copies to one party, leaving it on the superstructure of a power plant, dropping it somewhere on a 17-acre coal pile… ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/10 "2004-04-11T17:03:38Z")
**Disclaimer** I am not a records manager, but I did take a course. 😃 You are responsible to produce the records that a court can reasonably expect you to produce. Failure to produce these records on subpoena can result in very, very large fines (the legal system has decided that “We lost that record” is not a viable answer to a summons to produce records). From my textbook (“Information and Records Management”, Robek Brown Stephens, Fourth Edition, c. 1995, Glencoe/McGraw-Hill, p. 49) > [@](#): > > In a 1984 product liability case against and aircraft manufacturer, the judge of a U.S. district court who heard the case found that “the defendant engaged in a practice of destroying engineering documents with the intention of preventing them from being produced in law suits…” > The judge entered a default judgment against the defendant in the amount of $10 million because of the selective destruction of documents, without even considering the merits of the case. So, bottom line, don’t tear up ANY legal documents. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/11 "2004-04-11T17:06:31Z")
Um, please read that as “against AN aircraft manager.” Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/12 "2004-04-11T20:35:47Z")
> [@Fat Bald Guy](#): > > Depends if you rip it up before or after you sign it. In spite of the thread in the Pit, I have to agree with this because an unsigned contract has not been perfected and is therefore null and void. It is not a contract but a “proposal”. You are quite right. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/13 "2004-04-11T21:43:43Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > In spite of the thread in the Pit, I have to agree with this because an unsigned contract has not been perfected and is therefore null and void. It is not a contract but a “proposal”. You are quite right. Since a pre-nuptual agreement is entered into before a couple becomes “husband and wife,” it is illogical to infer that the pre-nup is unsigned. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/14 "2004-04-11T22:06:56Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Since a pre-nuptual agreement is entered into before a couple becomes “husband and wife,” it is illogical to infer that the pre-nup is unsigned. Oo! You sounded just like Spock! ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-tore-up-that-silly-pre-nup-so/239392/15 "2004-04-12T15:17:52Z")
Like **random** points out, there are some instances where physical destruction of a legal document is a revocation of that document, such as the tearing up of a will by the testator. However, premarital agreements in most states are governed under the Uniform Premarital Agreement Act, which states that a premarital agreement can only be amended or revoked by a written agreement signed by both parties.