# I unhappily report that I am right about obesity and diet (Very long) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543 "2011-02-16T04:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/241 "2011-03-02T23:26:06Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Really? Come on, now, that is not the nature of true scientific inquiry. The nature of true scientific inquiry is to accept that there is all kinds of evidence for and against a lot of things, and people draw different conclusions based on weighing that evidence. But, they might not have all the evidence at hand - and if you’re not a nutrition scientist or expert, how do you truly know what research this book may or may not be overlooking or ignoring? You don’t - which is why the true nature of scientific inquiry is to adapt and incorporate new information - not call ‘‘bullshit’’ on the old information on the basis of a single book. > > I was just diagnosed with insulin resistance and high cholesterol two weeks ago, and I’ve been steadily losing weight and exercising for over three months. I was already eating a fairly low amount of carbs and I was still diagnosed IR… I haven’t had refined carbs on a regular basis since like, 2008. I’ve been losing weight at an astonishing half pound per week, with periods of up to one month of not losing anything. Yes, it’s hard. There is no magic bullet. I will tell you that I bought about 4 books premised on the argument you’re reading right now, and I will admit it has changed the way I think about carbs… but never at any point did I reject the body of research that came before it… I balanced it with what I already knew. > > I will also note that since changing my diet to lo-carb or whatever it’s supposed to be now that I have to eat low-glycemic, I lost two pounds in one week. And I feel like absolute shit. I’m not physically capable of eating enough on a high-protein diet in order to sustain my high-intensity exercise regimen. I’m in bad shape, been to the doctor three times in the last month and all sorts of blood tests. I’m basically non-functional right now despite doing everything ‘‘right’’ … so you never know when your body is just going to throw you a curveball, science be damned. Are you eating low in fat as well as low in carbs? If so I’d bet a lot of money (if I had it) that’s the entire reason you’ve been feeling poorly. Especially if you don’t have a lot of body fat to lose. [All weight loss diets are high-fat diets.](http://freetheanimal.com/2008/12/all-diets-are-high-fat-diets.html)Most weight loss regimens, which involve cutting down calories, or fats or carbohydrates in particular, will make you miserable - even ill - once you run out of body fat to live off. Humans have to get most of their calories from either fat or carbs - we don’t do well at all trying to live on protein. If you can’t have carbs, you must eat fat in order to get enough food. Please do so your own sake! ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/242 "2011-03-02T23:39:20Z")
I hope that, along with the book, you have also read criticisms of the book, because there are plenty of them out there. There are a few warning bells when I started reading it: The author never refers to himself as an expert in diet or nutrition, and positively sneers at “experts”. The author says that the entirety of science and government is ignoring all that obvious evidence. The author makes several conclusions that are quite transparently correlation, not causation. The book follows the format of lots of self-help or “miracle” books by building up its argument before actually commencing the argument - this will “change your life” if you just take into account what the book says, it’s awesome, wonderful, you’ve never heard anything like it. When the modern scientific community actually listens to the author’s message the world will change! Then in chapter three (or whatever) it may go into specifics. Honestly it reads like a load of tripe, but people do fall for that garbage, so there you go. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/243 "2011-03-02T23:39:33Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > This is a good point, and IME, the solution isn’t just changing what you eat, it’s getting used to being hungry. I think people who struggle with eating don’t realize that being hungry is just kind of a part of life for most people. I never realized how many psychological issues I had around the fear of being hungry until, as part of a weight-loss plan, I had to do a ‘‘hunger tolerance’’ exercise specifically designed to get over this belief that somehow we should never be hungry and being hungry for a couple of hours is the end of the world. Apparently, thin people get hungry too - they just don’t eat until their next planned meal. Wow, if I had the belief that we should never feel hungry, I’d weigh a hell of a lot more than I do now. Did hunger tolerance end up making things easier for you to cope with? Being hungry isn’t that big of a deal to me most of the time, but I can imagine it sucking a lot more if you usually ate at the first sign of hunger. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/244 "2011-03-03T00:10:31Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Wow, if I had the belief that we should never feel hungry, I’d weigh a hell of a lot more than I do now. Did hunger tolerance end up making things easier for you to cope with? Being hungry isn’t that big of a deal to me most of the time, but I can imagine it sucking a lot more if you usually ate at the first sign of hunger. I don’t know specifically about how Stoid reacts to hunger, but we are both ADD, so I think this is relevant. Being ADD is probably one of the biggest problems I have with losing weight because being hungry is _distracting_. When I’m in a situation where I need to focus on what I’m doing, that is an extra level of stress that I just don’t need, and often can’t afford. When I was laid off for a year, I lost fifteen pounds. A lot of that was access to healthier snack options, not wanting to spend money on eating out and more activity, but some of it was definitely because I was not stress eating. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/245 "2011-03-03T00:18:45Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > Are you eating low in fat as well as low in carbs? Thanks for your concern - yes, I’m eating enough fat. I learned early on that fat is a scapegoat - my nutritionist told me point blank, ‘‘fat doesn’t make you fat, sugar makes you fat.’’ Obviously if you’re eating too much fat, fat can make you fat, but sugar doesn’t send those same ‘‘I’m full’’ signals and can trick you into thinking you need to eat more. > [@elfkin477](#): > > Wow, if I had the belief that we should never feel hungry, I’d weigh a hell of a lot more than I do now. Did hunger tolerance end up making things easier for you to cope with? Being hungry isn’t that big of a deal to me most of the time, but I can imagine it sucking a lot more if you usually ate at the first sign of hunger. Yes, practicing hunger tolerance made it a LOT easier to cope with being hungry. I was really helped tremendously by that book (_The Beck Diet Solution: Train Your Brain To Think Like a Thin Person_) in dealing with stress eating and hunger panic and all that other emotional/impulsive stuff that often takes over dietary choices. A lot of the battle is psychological, and unless you arm yourself cognitively I think it’s a losing one. Of course, now I’m supposed to be eating 6 small meals a day and am never hungry. I now have the opposite problem and am struggling to get in more than 1200 calories a day, which just isn’t working with my intended workout regimen. Eventually I just got used to eating less and I think it’s part of the reason I feel so crappy. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/246 "2011-03-03T03:22:02Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Were you aware of the information? If not, it’s “new” to you. Yes, I was aware, very aware - just not aware of the degree to which the facts have actually been proven and makes sense in light of the complicated and specific ways that the body actually works, which I was also not familiar with. That was the revelation in it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/247 "2011-03-03T03:25:12Z")
> [@Elysian](#): > > I hope that, along with the book, you have also read criticisms of the book, because there are plenty of them out there. Do any of them include refutations of the science? Because if they don’t, they are completely worthless. Battle the facts. As he repeatedly states: the scientific facts are not in dispute. So if you or anyone else disagrees and can show that they are, by all means bring it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/248 "2011-03-03T03:27:28Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > I don’t know specifically about how Stoid reacts to hunger, but we are both ADD, so I think this is relevant. Being ADD is probably one of the biggest problems I have with losing weight because being hungry is _distracting_. For me it’s the impulse control aspect of ADD that’s the killer. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/249 "2011-03-03T03:29:12Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Of course, now I’m supposed to be eating 6 small meals a day and am never hungry. I now have the opposite problem and am struggling to get in more than 1200 calories a day, which just isn’t working with my intended workout regimen. Eventually I just got used to eating less and I think it’s part of the reason I feel so crappy. I think it is, too. I really hope you read the book carefully and start to see what works for you. I think you’ll end up doing very well once you figure out what you need. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/250 "2011-03-03T05:12:39Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Except…for the umpteenth time: the book is all about “the body of research” and what “the body of research” says, and **has always** said, is that carbs make us fat, not excess calories. Along with a lot more detailed stuff about how the body regulates fat and uses food, etc. That’s exactly the point of the book and what I’ve been saying repeatedly: _ **this isn’t new.** _ We do not and \*\*have never \*\*“known” what we assume we know about low fat/restricted calorie/high carb eating. _ **The science isn’t there. It never was.** _ > > Everything we’ve been hearing, repeating, assuming…all bull. All assumptions. All extrapolations from weak data. And frankly, mostly embraced because it coincides with the “fat people are slothful gluttons” belief system. (A big part of what the book explains is the biological processes that drive fat people to eat more or move less or both, and conversely, lean people to move more and eat less.) And all pretty new…mostly the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s. Prior to that, it was understood in many ways, ranging from simply intuiting it to research showing it, that carbs made you fat. Going back decades, even centuries. And the things that changed that had nothing to do with science. OK, Stoid, I’m completely 100% with you that what you eat may be key. It may be THE most important factor. And I know for a fact that an obese person is not likely to permanently get thin on sheer willpower alone. But you contradict yourself, even within this one post, about what it is that makes people fat. In your first paragraph, you state: [QUOTE=Stoid] …carbs make us fat, not excess calories. [/QUOTE] Then, in your second paragraph, you say that the book _explains the biological processes that drive fat people to eat more or move less or both_. Which is an admission that it IS, in fact, excess calories that make people fat. In addition, you have stated over and over that you had a compulsive eating problem for years, which while it may be under control and not a causative factor for why you can’t lose weight, is certainly the reason that you are overweight to begin with. Gluttony is an ugly word, that implies an intent that isn’t there. Compulsive eating is a lot more descriptive of the psychological issue that may be going on, but what you call it doesn’t make you any more or less overweight…in the end, it’s all overeating. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/251 "2011-03-03T05:52:33Z")
Dissing Gary Taubes’ books without actually going to the trouble of reading them is wrong. When people try to describe the books, they often come across as foolishly faddish. They’re not. Start with _Good Calories, Bad Calories_. It’s about how our accepted ideas on diet came about, and what the science is behind the studies that have been done. Taubes is a highly respected science journalist who wrote _Good Calories, Bad Calories_ as an expansion of an article he wrote for the New York Times. He has a firm science background. From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Taubes studied applied physics at Harvard and aerospace engineering at Stanford (MS, 1978). After receiving a master’s degree in journalism at Columbia University in 1981, Taubes joined Discover magazine as a staff reporter in 1982.[2] Since then he has written numerous articles for Discover, Science and other magazines. Originally focusing on physics issues, his interests have more recently turned to medicine and nutrition…Taubes has won the Science in Society Award of the National Association of Science Writers three times and was awarded an MIT Knight Science Journalism Fellowship for 1996-97. He’s not a faddist. He spent something like 5 years researching _Good Calories, Bad Calories_, and has 100 pages of endnotes in it. He pored over literally hundreds of actual studies, trying to determine whether the conclusions reached were actually borne out by the evidence. In many cases, they were not. He has a real issue with poorly designed diet studies, and begs for better, randomized controlled trials. The main point of his book is that much more scientific study on diet needs to be done. From a review on [Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Gary-Taubes/dp/1400040787): > [@](#): > > It’s a look at what everyone says, and what the science says, and the politics that led us to ignore the science. The research level is staggering and evidence so overwhelming that portions of the book are downright infuriating. If you want the condensed video version of the premise of his books, see this video: [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4362041487661765149#](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4362041487661765149#) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/252 "2011-03-03T06:13:53Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Then, in your second paragraph, you say that the book _explains the biological processes that drive fat people to eat more or move less or both_. Which is an admission that it IS, in fact, excess calories that make people fat. Yes, but not so much excess calories as excess carbs. It’s well known that Type 1 diabetics who don’t produce insulin can’t gain weight at all, no matter how much they gorge. Without enough insulin, they will continue to lose weight. In non-diabetics, keeping the insulin levels low enables us to eat varying amounts of food and still keep our weight at an equilibrium. Too much insulin, and the food we eat will become body fat. What Taubes says is that obesity is a problem of fat storage. With the right foods, people will not store excess fat, even when eating well over the number of calories that is supposed to be the correct amount. Eating carbs causes too much insulin and insulin-related growth factor to circulate, which causes the body to burn carbs and store fat, instead of burning the fat. It also makes you crave more carbs to produce more insulin. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/253 "2011-03-03T06:14:24Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Then, in your second paragraph, you say that the book _explains the biological processes that drive fat people to eat more or move less or both_. Which is an admission that it IS, in fact, excess calories that make people fat. No, it isn’t. Not if you read the book, which explains that fat people “overeat” in the same sense that a growing child “overeats”: they are growing, so their body tells them to eat more to accommodate the growth. They don’t grow because they eat so much, they eat so much because they grow, and the same thing applies to fat people -the fact that it’s fat that is growing vs. bone and muscle makes no difference. READ THE FREAKING BOOK. And at no point in any of this have I said that emotional eating is a fantasy. It’s not. People can turn to food as a means of pinging their pleasure receptors in the brain, and they can behave addictiely around it (particularly and specifically carbohydrates!). I havent’ denied it and I’m not now. But that’s _behavior_, not fat accumulation! I know and have known lots of people who over eat and eat crap and never get fat. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/254 "2011-03-03T12:01:46Z")
The issue at hand is that the body isn’t receving signals that it’s full, before it eats more than it needs. I can go through a whole freekin’ bag of Doritos (carbs) and still hunt around for more. Those Utz Cheeseballs from Costco in the jar bigger than my head? Same way. Or I can have a single egg, and a small chunk of cheese, and be full from 7am til 10am. Eat a small snack at 10, a small lunch at noon, another snack at 2, and dinner…and not feel _appreciably_ hungry. Then at 7pm think “I’m hungry”…then think AGAIN “No, I’m not. I’m bored. Find something to do.” Daily Calorie Intake: 1400-1600 calories. OR I can have a doughnut for breakfast, a 600 calorie Macciato, overeat for lunch (at ANY restaurant, all portion sizes are too big), A snickers in the afternoon, A Martini when I get home (450 calories), A hungryman Dinner, and a low fat Ice Cream for dessert. Daily Calorie intake: 3500 Do EITHER for a period of time and I GUARANTEE your weight will change. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/255 "2011-03-03T15:15:35Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > The issue at hand is that the body isn’t receving signals that it’s full, before it eats more than it needs. I can go through a whole freekin’ bag of Doritos (carbs) and still hunt around for more. Those Utz Cheeseballs from Costco in the jar bigger than my head? Same way. > > Or I can have a single egg, and a small chunk of cheese, and be full from 7am til 10am. Eat a small snack at 10, a small lunch at noon, another snack at 2, and dinner…and not feel _appreciably_ hungry. You’ve hit on part, but not all of it. It’s more complex, in that it’s more than simply your body not getting the message that it’s full, it’s also about what the carbs are genuinely doing in your body, in your cells, that’s _driving_ you to eat, not simply failing to tell you you’re full. And once more: it’s not the fact that you’re being driven to eat more calories that’s making you fat. You’re fat and getting fatter, so you’re being driven to eat more calories. Calories are not the issue, and if you cannot imagine how that might be possible, then get the book and go straight to Chapter 4: teh Significance of Twenty Calories a Day. Then read the rest of the book. From that chapter: > [@](#): > > Twenty Calories. > > Next time someone tells us, as the World Health Organization does on its website, that the way to prevent “The burden of obesity” is “to achieve **energy balance** [i.e. calories in/out-stoid] and a healthy weight” this is the number that should come immediately to mind. Next time we’re told , as the USDA tells us, that “to prevent gradual weight gain over time” all we need to do is “make small decreases in food and beverage calories and increase physical activity” remember this number. > > If either of these official declarations about weight were true, then the obesity problem would be a figment of our collective imaginations, not the most pressing public health issue of our age. I again strongly encourage anyone who has a weight issue to read it themselves. The information is comprehensive. Reading it won’t stop you from wanting the donuts and bread and potatoes, that’s still your challenge, and it’s not a minor one. But you will be armed with a far better understanding of what’s going on in your body, and when you start to make changes, the response you get will make more sense to you. And if you don’t have the time or inclination to get the book today, follow my link a few posts up to the Youtube video of the vegetarian Stanford research who found it a “bitter pill to swallow” that low carb was the only diet that actually seemed to work, and which also made statistically significant differences in LDL, HDL, triglycerides, and blood pressure. Oh…I just found on my hard drive the original 2002 NYT article that was the jumping off point for Taubes’ book _Good Calories, Bad Calories_, which was the heavier version of of _Why We Get Fat_. If anyone wants it, PM me and I’ll email it to you. I haven’t read it myself, but I was just glancing at it, and back then even Taubes himself was still thinking that total calories counted, while recognizing the carb problem. His research for the book changed that, for sure. And I found this as part of it, in relation to my response above: > [@](#): > > In fact, when the American Medical > Association released its scathing critique of > Atkins’s diet in March 1973, it acknowledged > that the diet probably worked, but expressed > little interest in why. Through the 60’s, this > had been a subject of considerable research, > with the conclusion that Atkins-like diets > were low-calorie diets in disguise; that when > you cut out pasta, bread and potatoes, you’ll > have a hard time eating enough meat, > vegetables and cheese to replace the > calories. > > That, however, raised the question of why > such a low-calorie regimen would also > suppress hunger, which Atkins insisted was > the signature characteristic of the diet. One > possibility was Endocrinology 101: that fat > and protein make you sated and, lacking > carbohydrates and the \*\*ensuing swings of > blood sugar and insulin, \*\*you stay sated. and here’s a few tidbits referencing how it happened that THE TRUTH got ignored while the LIES became “well-accepted”: > [@](#): > > The bottom line is that for the better part of > 30 years Atkins insisted his diet worked and > was safe, Americans apparently tried it by > the tens of millions, while nutritionists, > physicians, public- health authorities and > anyone concerned with heart disease insisted > it could kill them, and expressed little or no > desire to find out who was right. > [@](#): > > Two dozen obese > volunteers agreed to follow Atkins’s diet for > eight weeks and lost an average of 17 > pounds each, with no apparent ill effects, > although their L.D.L. cholesterol did go up. > The researchers, led by John LaRosa, now > president of the State University of New York > Downstate Medical Center in Brooklyn, > concluded that the 17-pound weight loss in > eight weeks would likely have happened with > any diet under ‘‘the novelty of trying > something under experimental conditions’’ > and never pursued it further. 😕:eek: Hey now, that’s some impressive scientific inquiry! > [@](#): > > These researchers point out that there are > plenty of reasons to suggest that the > low-fat-is-good-health hypothesis has now > effectively failed the test of time. In > particular, that we are in the midst of an > obesity epidemic that started around the > early 1980’s, and that this was coincident > with the rise of the low-fat dogma. (Type 2 > diabetes, the most common form of the > disease, also rose significantly through this > period.) They say that low-fat weight-loss > diets have proved in clinical trials and real > life to be dism al failures, and that on top of itall, the percentage of fat in the American > diet has been decreasing for two decades. > Our cholesterol levels have been declining, > and we have been smoking less, and yet the > incidence of heart disease has not declined > as would be expected. ‘‘That is very > disconcerting,’’ Willett says. ‘‘It suggests that > something else bad is happening.’’ > [@](#): > > The results of all five of > these studies are remarkably consistent. > Subjects on some form of the Atkins diet – > whether overweight adolescents on the diet > for 12 weeks as at Schneider, or obese > adults averaging 295 pounds on the diet for > six months, as at the Philadelphia V.A. – lost > twice the weight as the subjects on the > low-fat, low-calorie diets. > In all five studies, cholesterol levels > improved similarly with both diets, but > triglyceride levels were considerably lower > with the Atkins diet. Though researchers are > hesitant to agree with this, it does suggest > that heart-disease risk could actually be > reduced when fat is added back into the diet > and starches and refined carbohydrates are > removed. ‘‘I think when this stuff gets to be > recognized,’’ Stunkard says, ‘‘it’s going to > really shake up a lot of thinking about > obesity and metabolism.’’ Ah, if only… And as for all of this being some “new fad” that people mindlessly embrace: > [@](#): > > What’s forgotten in the current controversy > is that the low-fat dogma itself is only about > 25 years old. Until the late 70’s, the > accepted wisdom was that fat and protein > protected against overeating by making you > sated, and that carbohydrates made you fat. I don’t want to anger the copyright gods, so PM me… ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/256 "2011-03-03T16:49:50Z")
You are inspiring me, Stoid. I hope your plan is working for you and you’re seeing results! ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/257 "2011-03-03T18:29:48Z")
The article is available for all to read on the NYTimes website. [http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/258 "2011-03-03T19:21:06Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > You are inspiring me, Stoid. I hope your plan is working for you and you’re seeing results! I havent’ committed to low-carb yet: I’ve invested too much money in the food I have in my house! I can’t really afford to throw it all out and start from scratch. But I’m beginning the turn in that direction… It’s not easy, as I’ve said repeatedly. I just hope I get some solid results quickly once I’m fully committed, and I’m sending prayers to the Food Gods that a relatively mellow program of carb reduction is possible for me, because Atkins induction-level carb restriction is tough going. Taubes said in his book something I really respected as more honest than you usually see regarding losing cravings, and that is, if it’s really necessary for a person to avoid carbs entirely in order to avoid triggering addictive behavior, that it takes 12 to 18 months to genuinely change that desire, which sounds much more believable to me than the usual 6 weeks/21 days/90 days that you hear for killing cravings. I just don’t find myself forgetting how much I LURVE nutmeg cake and handmade tortillas after a few weeks of going without! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/259 "2011-03-03T19:27:11Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > this is false, unless there was a point in history where nobody was an infant. I just noticed this (re grains vs. dairy) I think animal domestication pre-dates plant, especially grain, vs. vegetables. And if you have ever seen the Masai or the Mongols squirting milk directly from the udders of goats and cows, you can see how dairy probably came first. ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/260 "2011-03-03T20:55:50Z")
I can confirm that I have a lot fewer cravings now that I eat better. I used to do a lot of restless kitchen searches. You know, you go into the kitchen, open the frig, open the cabinets, looking for something. I don’t do that anymore. I have reduced (but not eliminated) carbs in my daily life. When I do eat them, it’s nearly always complex carbohydrates (whole grains, corn, beans, sweet potato, etc). I don’t have to give them up completely, because I have apparently found the right amount for me. My whole life, I thought I had a problem with food, I was an overeater, a binger. I was fat. I found out almost by accident that I only have a problem with some foods. When I made a decision to eat more whole foods back in 2004, I pretty much gave up empty carbs by accident. And it was like a miracle happened for me. I had more energy, I quit binging, I quit craving. After 20 years of being fat and struggling to lose weight, I lost weight easily and have kept it off ever since. If you had told me 7 years ago that I would live without chips, pretzels, scones, muffins, cookies, I would have thought you were insane. Those were my favorite foods! Turns out, it’s easy for me to live without them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543.md?page=14)