# I unhappily report that I am right about obesity and diet (Very long) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543 "2011-02-16T04:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/521 "2011-03-10T21:02:53Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Thanks. I will. I feel very positive in a way I have not in a very long time. You missed what is arguably (to your goal, anyway) the most important point of my post: you have not been following any plan long enough or closely enough (see, cornbread) to really have any idea whether your diet is working or not. A couple of weeks is nothing for weight loss. At most, in a couple of weeks, you could hope to lose water weight, not excess fat. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/522 "2011-03-10T21:56:23Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > hard alcohol has no carbs – there’s a treat. Gah! For me, that would be punishment… 🙂 It’s a process. I’ve done low carb before, I did Atkins in 1971, early 80’s, and again in 2001, I did CAD (which I think is kinda bogus, but I imagine it works for some people), I’ve done GI.. I know the drill. But this time, since I’m looking to make more _permanent_ change, I’m approaching it differently. Like I said, I’ll keep the Dope abreast of my progress. If Sunday splurges are messing me up, I’ll know. ---
**Author:** ![Submerged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@Submerged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Submerged)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/523 "2011-03-10T22:17:08Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I eat _very much_ like what **Stoid** just described, minus the cornbread of course, and have been doing it religiously since the beginning of January. Are you also regularly scarfing down 1000-calorie cheeseburgers? > [@](#): > > Since January 19th, I have lost…15 pounds…have I lost a clothing size worth of water weight? No, probably about a third of that is water weight. You’ve been carb restricted long enough that once all the glycogen-bound water was gone, you did start losing fat. Stoid, on the other hand, has only been on this diet a few weeks, and is cheating with the massive cornbread binges, so yes, her “lost 5 pounds” is almost certainly just all water weight. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/524 "2011-03-10T22:18:45Z")
> [@Submerged](#): > > massive cornbread binges :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/525 "2011-03-10T22:20:28Z")
By the way… > [@Submerged](#): > > Are you also regularly scarfing down 1000-calorie cheeseburgers? What part of “I eat _very much_ like stoid just described” do you not understand? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/526 "2011-03-10T22:36:07Z")
Stoid, As a foodie and someone who loves to cook, how do you feel about recipe reviews that read like this: This recipe was terrible! I have no idea how everyone can like it because it came out of the oven completely hard and the taste was awful. I know the recipe called for half-and-half but I only had 2% so I used that. I also subbed out the vanilla extract for rum because I’m allergic to vanilla. Also, my oven’s a bit wonky and has cold spots so I turned it up from 350 to 375. But really beware of this recipe! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/527 "2011-03-10T22:48:29Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Stoid, > > As a foodie and someone who loves to cook, how do you feel about recipe reviews that read like this: > > This recipe was terrible! I have no idea how everyone can like it because it came out of the oven completely hard and the taste was awful. I know the recipe called for half-and-half but I only had 2% so I used that. I also subbed out the vanilla extract for rum because I’m allergic to vanilla. Also, my oven’s a bit wonky and has cold spots so I turned it up from 350 to 375. But really beware of this recipe! Seriously??? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/528 "2011-03-10T22:55:56Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Stoid, > > As a foodie and someone who loves to cook, how do you feel about recipe reviews that read like this: > > This recipe was terrible! I have no idea how everyone can like it because it came out of the oven completely hard and the taste was awful. I know the recipe called for half-and-half but I only had 2% so I used that. I also subbed out the vanilla extract for rum because I’m allergic to vanilla. Also, my oven’s a bit wonky and has cold spots so I turned it up from 350 to 375. But really beware of this recipe! And then when someone points out “you’re doing it wrong” scream at them about how they need to **READ** the _WHOLE COOKBOOK_ to fully understand the NATURE of **SUBSTITUTIONS** in _ **COOKING.** _ ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/529 "2011-03-10T23:00:12Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Sounds very sane! Especially the fiber, that’s a must must must must. That’s debatable. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/530 "2011-03-10T23:09:21Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > That’s debatable. Shut up, and read the book. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/531 "2011-03-10T23:14:27Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Shut up, and read the book. I plan to read half- will that be sufficient? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/532 "2011-03-10T23:18:17Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I plan to read half- will that be sufficient? Okay, then I will respond to half of your criticisms. The half of my choosing. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/533 "2011-03-10T23:19:13Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > By the way… > > What part of “I eat _very much_ like stoid just described” do you not understand? Jesus Christ, THIS. It’s like talking to a brick wall. Dinner tonight was sauteed mushrooms, garlic spinach, and a porterhouse steak. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/534 "2011-03-10T23:22:17Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > That’s debatable. The fiber? Not for me… yikes. That can turn into an issue very quickly. And the best low-carb answer aint’ that great, “pulses” as Taubes refers to them. Such an odd term, I’ve only seen it used a few times over the last couple of years. (Means legumes, beans, peas, etc.) Best fiber answer in the world. But also very carby… ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/535 "2011-03-10T23:33:23Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Dinner tonight was sauteed mushrooms, garlic spinach, and a porterhouse steak. Garlic spinach? MMMM… I read the most startling recipe when I was low-carbing about ten years ago. It was for the most butter-drenched spinach… damn I wish I could remember exactly what it was. But even I, who have always liked super-buttery spinach, found the recipe alarming. Garlic spinach sounds delish. By the way, excellent way to prepare steak is to season it with soy sauce and pepper, vs. salt and pepper, and nothing else. No garlic, no other seasoning. Let the soy marinate for at least 20 minutes or so, then broil or grill. Amazing how much flavor it imparts without coming across as “soy sauce”. Splash it on sauteed mushrooms and/or onions as well. I learned that trick from a friend a zillion years ago and ever since, I just can’t stand the idea of putting much else on a good cut of beef. (Excellent for roasts, particularly prime rib if you can afford it. Drives me crazy to see someone take a prime rib and douse it in a bunch of spices!) But sometimes it’s nice to make a wine/herb butter for the plate… And lamb chops, if you’re a fan, should only need a little salt and pepper, and maybe a pat of butter under the grill. (I forgot about lamb chops. I love lamb chops. If only they didn’t stink up the house so much…lamb’s like the [Durian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durian) of meats. Smells nasty as hell, tastes great.) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/536 "2011-03-10T23:41:39Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Oh, I read it, but I’m still not understanding how you can go on and on, for pages and pages, extolling the virtues of this diet, this book, claiming you’re on a low carb diet. And it’s the most awesomest diet ever! > > When, in fact, it turns out you’re on an awesome low carb diet, except, ‘to keep from going crazy’, or when you’ve, ‘given yourself permission’, to eat corn bread and butter - as a meal! > > Is that in the book? > > You seriously think the problem with the other diets you’ve tried is the diets and not you? > > 'Cause it kind of sounds like it’s the, ‘to keep from going crazy’ and ‘giving myself permission’, rationalizations is what’s making all your diets fail, in my opinion. I have no problem with the idea of a weekly “splurge meal”, and I used to recommend it to people when I worked as a personal trainer. It can be very satisfying to make it through a whole week without cheating on your diet, then you go out to a restaurant and get a something that normally wouldn’t be allowed. Reward systems work. That being said, if one of my clients had told me that their last splurge meal was a big chunk of cornbread with a bunch of butter, I would have had a problem with that. I always stressed that they could splurge somewhat on the calories, but to try and keep the protein/carb/fat ratios in the ballpark of what they should normally eat. You want to add a cornbread muffin to a meal with a steak and some seasoned green beans? Sure, knock yourself out. Add some butter to it, for all I care. Eating an entire meal of three big pieces of cornbread with “lots” of butter, that’s not going to work. The whole point of “diets” isn’t to go into a massive calorie deficit, lose a bunch of weight, then go back to your old eating habits. It’s supposed to be about developing new, better habits. As an aside, I’m quite certain she severly underestimated the calorie content of that meal at being only around 600 or so. Granted, I don’t know the exact amount she ate, but as someone else pointed out upthread, people tend to underestimate the calories they consume and overestimate the calories they expend. ---
**Author:** ![Submerged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@Submerged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Submerged)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/537 "2011-03-10T23:51:33Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > people tend to underestimate the calories they consume Especially fat people. And considering that even she admitted that she ate “quite a bit”, (and with tons of butter), it was probably a huge portion, well over 1000 calories’ worth. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/538 "2011-03-11T00:01:10Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > As an aside, I’m quite certain she severly underestimated the calorie content of that meal at being only around 600 or so. Granted, I don’t know the exact amount she ate, but as someone else pointed out upthread, people tend to underestimate the calories they consume and overestimate the calories they expend. To each his own re: splurge meals. Having a little muffin on the side while I eat something I really don’t feel like eating isn’t much of a splurge for me. Since what I want is the cornbread, I see no point in eating other things I don’t want, given that its a splurge meal. YMMV. As for estimations… I’ve been measuring my calories rigorously for weeks, and I actually did the numbers on the cornbread. But it doesn’t really matter either way: I chose to eat a big chunk of cornbread with butter. 600 calories or 6,000 makes absolutely no difference to anything. I ate the cornbread. Four days ago. It didn’t turn into an all night binge, I didn’t go back and eat a big plate of pasta and a loaf of bread AND a steak and veges, and I didn’t gain weight. In fact I lost. And today I lost again. And I’ve been just great for the past four days, no problem sticking with the program at all. So it looks like I somehow managed to weather the terrifying and enormous act of eating a big chunk of cornbread successfully, both in terms of how it affected my behavior and my body, without any and every chance of my ever successfully applying carb restriction being permanently destroyed. (Considering that I have, in my lifetime, had carb binges that would make your hair stand on end, it would be awfully strange if it did.) In light of that fact, it defies understanding why it has become a topic of such persistent interest. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/539 "2011-03-11T00:05:39Z")
> [@Submerged](#): > > Especially fat people. And considering that even she admitted that she ate “quite a bit”, (and with tons of butter), it was probably a huge portion, well over 1000 calories’ worth. OK, would you just drop it? Jeezusfuckingkeeeristonacrutch.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/540 "2011-03-11T00:08:01Z")
I did the numbers in my head. I just did the numbers _exactly_. The **whole recipe,** which was halved to begin with, was 885. I ate a little more than half of it. Say 500 cal for that. Add 200 for two tablespoons of butter. 700. I was off by 100. Positively earthshattering. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543.md?page=28)