# I unhappily report that I am right about obesity and diet (Very long) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543 "2011-02-16T04:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/761 "2011-03-22T19:40:56Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > Going back to a very early discussion, I thought Stoid would be interested in this study: > > [Complications in 40% of lap band patients.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20110321/hl_hsn/40ofgastricbandingpatientshavecomplications) No surprises there. I only know one person who has the lap band. She lost about 60 pounds, then gained it all back, no surprise. And that’s true of all bariatric surgeries, look at Carnie Wilson, she’s not as big as she was, but she’s back to being genuinely obese and she had the full deal, as we know. > [@Meyer6](#): > > I can’t believe that in that article he tries to make Michelle Obama’s attempts to curtail childhood obesity seem terribly misguided. He’s basically saying that it’s pointless to try and educate parents about balanced, healthy diets and exercise, because it won’t work anyways. The only solution is to ban carbs forever from everywhere, ever. > > .. > > I think it’s dangerous and stupid of this guy to try and spread the idea that healthy eating and activity are worthless goals for families. Ya know, exaggeration and misrepresentation undermine the value of what’s being said no matter who says it. It also undermines complaints about it. > [@Philster](#): > > Why can’t we teach these children to eat right? **Because ‘eating right’ is _what_ exactly?** > > What is ‘eating right’? Exactly so, since that’s the heart of the matter. “Fat Head” takes both an entertaining, yet also more political look at the whole question. There’s a comment made by one of the medical talking heads about the USDA existing to serve business, and selling the idea that grain is where its at has nothing to do with health and everything to do with money. I watched “fat Head” and “Food, Inc” back to back yesterday, and taken together one can find oneself very pissed off about the degree to which we have all been misinformed and manipulated. But to answer your question, Philster, here’s my vote for what constitutes eating right The majority of meals and snacks made up of: [ul] [li]animal protein and fat, from animals that haven’t been filled with hormones and antibiotics. This includes eggs and dairy.[/li][li]Every kind of vegetable and every kind of fruit, (although super-starchy root vegetables should be kept to a minimum and never make up the majority of the calories from a meal, as in eating a bag of potato chips)[/li][li]Nuts[/li][li]Extracted fats from nuts and from vegetable sources that are naturally fatty, like olives and coconut (vs. corn or soybean oil)[/li][/ul] To the extent that they are tolerated without weight gain or other ill-effect, legumes and whole grains can be a small part of the diet in combination with the above, such as whole grain bread for sandwiches. And because we are in the real world, the “whites”, flour and sugar, should be considered very rare, potentially toxic “treats”, and that emphatically includes the devil’s water, aka SODA. Maybe once or twice a month. I bet if we could, in fantasyland, get everyone to agree to raise their kids eating like this, obesity would be virtually wiped out. Because while there’s obviously fierce disagreement over whether calories count or not, there seems to be a great deal of agreement that carbs DO trigger insulin spikes, that carbs DO leave you feeling hungry, that carbs DO tend, in a large percentage of people, to drive a kind of carb addiction that then drives people to eat more, much more, than they would otherwise. So treating them like the addictive drug they mimic would go a long way to heading off the addiction and the resulting obesity. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/762 "2011-03-22T19:41:58Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > No, this topic is the one topic on SDMB that flies under the science radar, ignores reality and perpetuates myths. Yes, but which science is being flown under? Which reality being ignored? Which myth being perpetuated? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/763 "2011-03-22T19:55:53Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > My God, this topic brings out the crazy. Yeah. If we were all in a room I’d be backing, not so slowly, toward the door. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/764 "2011-03-22T19:58:36Z")
Oh, that’s easy! What we keep ignoring is the science of how eating is something that you mostly don’t control! Haha. Once we accept that eating is mostly something our conscious can’t control, we can work on the problem. Until we work from this premise, just what kind of progress are we going to make? Also, let’s constantly treat thin, overweight and morbidly obese people the same! YES, that’s brilliant science! 🙂 Eating less than you burn = weight loss. However, I am begging the question if I run around showing people how they can eat fewer calories than they burn, unless I acknowledge that eating fewer calories over the long haul (or even the appropriate am’t) is impossible for society at large. Possible for a few, rare, special cases. For everyone else: impossible. The issue is: How in the name of god can we reprogram/recode people to take control of what they eat, so that things like insulin resistance and other types of built-in coding allow someone to be freaking satisfied on the right number of calories? HOW? Good-fucking-luck. We ain’t there yet. . ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/765 "2011-03-22T20:25:30Z")
Well, seeing as I’ve lost two inches off my waist and three off my hips in two months, I think I’ll stick with stuffing my fat face with bacon. Tonight’s dinner is chicken breast topped with langostinis and hollandaise, with a side of roasted asparagus and some leftover cabbage fried in bacon fat and homemade butter. If my steadily-slimming ass could talk to you, it would be saying something like “neener neener.” You can try to feel superior about your dry chicken and brown rice and steamed veggies with no butter. In the end, if you want to eat carbs and stay skinny, you can’t eat the carbs that taste good, so it’s not like I’m missing anything. But the calorie-counters sure are. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/766 "2011-03-22T20:30:25Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > The issue is: How in the name of god can we reprogram/recode people to take control of what they eat, so that things like insulin resistance and other types of built-in coding allow someone to be freaking satisfied on the right number of calories? HOW? Good-fucking-luck. My goodness, Philster, you are the voice of doom and hopelessness! The mental picture I get is kinda funny, actually… ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/767 "2011-03-22T20:35:05Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Well, seeing as I’ve lost two inches off my waist and three off my hips in two months, I think I’ll stick with stuffing my fat face with bacon. Tonight’s dinner is chicken breast topped with langostinis and hollandaise, with a side of roasted asparagus and some leftover cabbage fried in bacon fat and homemade butter. If my steadily-slimming ass could talk to you, it would be saying something like “neener neener.” > > You can try to feel superior about your dry chicken and brown rice and steamed veggies with no butter. In the end, if you want to eat carbs and stay skinny, you can’t eat the carbs that taste good, so it’s not like I’m missing anything. But the calorie-counters sure are. You are my inspiration, DB. (Had a friend once named Debbie who changed her name to DB, then married a man named Bean. DB Bean. Great name.) By the way, I believe the crowd you are "neener"ing will tell you that you are eating fewer calories than you used to. This might be true. But unless you are planning on eating just a teaspoon of hollandaise, you removed the skin from that chicken, and you are only using a smidge of bacon fat and butter, it’s hard to see how… that is one rich supper, my dear. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/768 "2011-03-22T20:44:11Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > You can try to feel superior about your dry chicken and brown rice and steamed veggies with no butter. In the end, if you want to eat carbs and stay skinny, you can’t eat the carbs that taste good, so it’s not like I’m missing anything. But the calorie-counters sure are. Actually, I think that the hostility directed at the possibility that someone could lose weight eating rich, delicious foods that have been widely considered “bad” is because the fat are supposed to be punished for their indulgence by starving on tasteless food in order to receive the reward of no longer being fat. Losing weight and getting healthier eating bacon and butter seems, to some, like a bank robber avoiding jail by robbing another bank. And since some people do hang on to their slimness by constantly depriving themselves, having a fat person “get away” with eating “fattening” foods might understandably piss such people off, the same way Ferris Beuller’s sister got pissed at Ferris for getting away with doing so many bad things and remaining adored. ---
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/769 "2011-03-22T21:12:29Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Actually, I think that the hostility directed at the possibility that someone could lose weight eating rich, delicious foods that have been widely considered “bad” is because the fat are supposed to be punished for their indulgence by starving on tasteless food in order to receive the reward of no longer being fat. Losing weight and getting healthier eating bacon and butter seems, to some, like a bank robber avoiding jail by robbing another bank. And since some people do hang on to their slimness by constantly depriving themselves, having a fat person “get away” with eating “fattening” foods might understandably piss such people off, the same way Ferris Beuller’s sister got pissed at Ferris for getting away with doing so many bad things and remaining adored. This would be quite surprising to me. People who eat low fat generally find high fat foods pretty disgusting. When I ate low fat, there was never any jealousy of those who were eating fattier foods. More I didn’t care or if it was excessive, I found it extremely unappealing. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/770 "2011-03-22T21:18:15Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > This would be quite surprising to me. People who eat low fat generally find high fat foods pretty disgusting. When I ate low fat, there was never any jealousy of those who were eating fattier foods. More I didn’t care or if it was excessive, I found it extremely unappealing. Heh I was thinking the same: the reason why a diet composed of bacon and butter arouses “hostility” is, quite frankly, because it seems revolting. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/771 "2011-03-22T21:48:52Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > This would be quite surprising to me. People who eat low fat generally find high fat foods pretty disgusting. When I ate low fat, there was never any jealousy of those who were eating fattier foods. More I didn’t care or if it was excessive, I found it extremely unappealing. If you eat low-fat because you _prefer_ it, of course; but that’s not who I was referring to, obviously. If you eat low-fat and low-cal because you must to maintain the skinny, even though you would _rather_ eat a richer diet, then that’s different. I’ve noticed a few people on here over the years who were able to overcome their weight problems through consistent vigilance in the face of a desire to eat differently who had a surprising degree of hostility towards those who had not similarly succeeded. It was a naturally slim friend who suggested that there might be certain amount of (admittedly complicated) jealousy towards those who, in the mind of the vigilant formerly obese person, get to indulge their desires. Obviously those who indulge pay the price of continuing to be obese, but that doesn’t necessarily prevent the emotional reaction. Jealousy and anger towards people who are doing something you’d like to do but don’t, to avoid negative consequences, even if they are suffering for it, isn’t that unusual. People’s emotional reactions are rarely shaped by the rational consideration of the complete picture. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/772 "2011-03-22T21:57:49Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > This would be quite surprising to me. People who eat low fat generally find high fat foods pretty disgusting. When I ate low fat, there was never any jealousy of those who were eating fattier foods. More I didn’t care or if it was excessive, I found it extremely unappealing. And of course… my comment was not exclusive to “fatty” foods, either, it was about eating a tastier diet that’s normally considered “fattening” vs. a diet considered slimming. Most people agree that the majority of the most appealing foods are in some respect “fattening”. If what most people consider a slimming diet was also considered by most people to be more appealing than what is considered a fattening diet, this entire conversation would be moot; it’s not like fat people are fat because they are consuming vast quantities of steamed fish and broccoli. It is hard-coded on our DNA to prefer fat and sugar, because that’s where the calories are. Anyone who has ever had a baby will tell you that! Those of us who _ **do not** _ gravitate to fat and sugar are the oddities. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/773 "2011-03-22T22:09:57Z")
So, like, are we still talking about science, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/774 "2011-03-22T22:13:37Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > If you eat low-fat because you _prefer_ it, of course; but that’s not who I was referring to, obviously. If you eat low-fat and low-cal because you must to maintain the skinny, even though you would _rather_ eat a richer diet, then that’s different. That’s not what I’m referencing. Most people who eat low-fat, IME, do it because they view it to be healthy. Most people who are able to do this long-term come to no longer view fat foods as appealing, just as you have referenced a reduced desire for carbohydrates by cutting back on them. Initially, yes, people’s ingrained taste they are born with may be for fat. But I know from personal experience and from the experience of others that the fat itself is unappealing as a result of a low-fat diet; not the cause of it. Therefore, people who are on a low-fat diet have no reason to be hostile to people eating high fat diets, except of course if they pay taxes or belong to any insurance pool and subscribe to the belief that eating a high-fat diet is unhealthy. But it has nothing to do with jealousy. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/775 "2011-03-22T22:27:00Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > This would be quite surprising to me. People who eat low fat generally find high fat foods pretty disgusting. When I ate low fat, there was never any jealousy of those who were eating fattier foods. More I didn’t care or if it was excessive, I found it extremely unappealing. I eat low carb and I am really not a fan of greasy, fatty food in general. I ate bacon the other day and felt ill for the rest of the day. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/776 "2011-03-22T22:41:14Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I eat low carb and I am really not a fan of greasy, fatty food in general. I ate bacon the other day and felt ill for the rest of the day. But if you don’t eat plates of bacon each day, how do you get that sweet feeling of sticking it to the man? 😕 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/777 "2011-03-22T22:42:54Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh I was thinking the same: the reason why a diet composed of bacon and butter arouses “hostility” is, quite frankly, because it seems revolting. :eek: It’s not the bacon & butter specifically. It’s about how fat people aren’t supposed to enjoy their food at all. After I posted in a couple of similar threads to this one, I got the following anonymous comment in my LJ: > [@](#): > > This is the reason I am commenting: I’ve read your compelling arguments about the sometimes difficult road to weight loss. I feel compassion for those trying hard to lose weight. I work out 2-3 hours/day, and I’m fairly strict with my diet. This is how I stay lean. > > Now you come along and say you’ve been chowing down on Pepperidge Farm cookies. And all along, I’ve been feeling bad for you. But I don’t eat cookies, and you do! I feel tricked into feeling empathy for you when you indulge in foods I wouldn’t dream of. That’s after admitting that I ate a Verona cookie. One Verona cookie, which, btw, is less than 47 calories. You can read my entire response here: [Error](http://zyada.livejournal.com/402228.html) - note, that was over six years ago, and many things have happened since then. But my final question (which I never got an answer to) was: > [@](#): > > how do you rationalize condemning someone for one behavior without any knowledge about the myriad other behaviors and conditions affecting that person? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/778 "2011-03-22T22:48:06Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I eat low carb and I am really not a fan of greasy, fatty food in general. I ate bacon the other day and felt ill for the rest of the day. You _say_ that, but secretly you long to wrap sticks of butter in bacon and deep-fry them - then feast on those suckers like Homer Simpson on steroids. Confess now! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/779 "2011-03-22T22:52:30Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > It’s not the bacon & butter specifically. It’s about how fat people aren’t supposed to enjoy their food at all. After I posted in a couple of similar threads to this one, I got the following anonymous comment in my LJ: > > That’s after admitting that I ate a Verona cookie. One Verona cookie, which, btw, is less than 47 calories. > > You can read my entire response here: [Error](http://zyada.livejournal.com/402228.html) - note, that was over six years ago, and many things have happened since then. > > But my final question (which I never got an answer to) was: There are some people who will give you shit no matter what you do. The trick is to not care too much. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543/780 "2011-03-22T23:25:17Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s after admitting that I ate a Verona cookie. One Verona cookie, which, btw, is less than 47 calories. I had a dude from the internet call me at work and tell me he was coming to rape and murder me because I didn’t like his poem. I don’t think this means that all free verse is written by rapists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-unhappily-report-that-i-am-right-about-obesity-and-diet-very-long/571543.md?page=40)