# I used the word 'tar-baby' **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 11, 2001, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051 "2001-07-11T06:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Maera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maera/32/3190_2.png) [@Maera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maera)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/1 "2001-07-11T06:40:59Z")
I was referring to a project I didn’t want to get involved in; one that looked simple on the surface, but I felt had a likely probability of expanding to consume all of my time. I referenced that it would be like "touching the tar-baby, meaning that once I touched it, it would stick to me forever. I’d heard the term used before to describe that type of a project, and didn’t think about its derogotory connotation, but after speaking, I noticed my African-American collegue in the meeting seemed quite tense. Then I felt stupid. So I’m wondering if the phrase has a racist origin, or is it legitimate with an unfortunate dual usage. In other words, how bad did I fuck up? ---
**Author:** ![ricepad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@ricepad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricepad)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/2 "2001-07-11T06:49:10Z")
I’ve used the term before, too, and don’t consider it racist. It has its origins in the old American folk story where Br’er Rabbit (Bear?) makes a baby out of tar to catch Br’er Fox. When Br’er Fox tries to grab the tar baby, all of a sudden he can’t get rid of it…it sticks to him even more as his struggles mount. ---
**Author:** ![Maera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maera/32/3190_2.png) [@Maera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maera)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/3 "2001-07-11T07:14:36Z")
Thanks **Ricepad**. That’s exactly the meaning I was trying to convey. I’m still wondering if it’s appropriate to apologize. ---
**Author:** ![ricepad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@ricepad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricepad)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/4 "2001-07-11T07:23:39Z")
I dunno that you have to _apologize_…but you might want to explain the reference to make sure s/he understands it. I’m not sure what this has to do with the OP, but **Mrs. ricepad** insists that the mascot of Compton High School (Los Angeles County) used to be the Tar Babes. I’m skeptical… ---
**Author:** ![Rue\_DeDay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/41988e/32.png) [@Rue\_DeDay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rue_DeDay)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/5 "2001-07-11T11:07:31Z")
Br’er Fox and Br’er Bear make the Tar Baby to catch Br’er Rabbit. The American Folktale (Uncle Remus story) comes straight from Africa. It’s really an American re-telling of an African Folktale. It’s also a rather insulting, derogotory reference. You didn’t mean anything bad by your reference, Maera, but your statement was taken amiss. You don’t _have_ to apologize, but it might help the office “mood”. (Like ricepad said.) My 2¢. -Rue. ---
**Author:** ![sewalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@sewalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sewalk)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/6 "2001-07-11T11:12:27Z")
The expression itself shouldn’t cause offense if the context is understood. Unfortunately, the Uncle Remus stories and _Song of the South_ carry a strong stigma of racism. SOTS is the only Disney feature that will probably never be released again. I haven’t heard of it being shown anywhere for at least 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Phoebestar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Phoebestar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoebestar)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/7 "2001-07-11T17:18:26Z")
I remember seeing this when I was about 10 or 11 years old at a theatre (on Thanksgiving). Probably 1987 or 1988. I didn’t find much offensive about it, but I was young and not culturally sensitive™ yet. I wonder if it’s ever been released on video, it’d be interesting to see it now with a different perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/8 "2001-07-11T17:49:32Z")
Be careful in the next meeting to not use “niggardly” to describe someone’s actions. Be very careful. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/9 "2001-07-11T19:27:44Z")
I use the phrase all the time in reference to litigation. As in, “This lawsuit could turn into a real tar baby. Maybe we’d better explore a compromise.” I can’t think of a more apt phrase to describe a situation in which foolish contentiousness only serves to increase your woes and drain your resources. ---
**Author:** ![TexasSpur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@TexasSpur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexasSpur)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/10 "2001-07-11T19:31:49Z")
I had only heard of it used as a racist term. Wow, I guess it is a legitimate term. ---
**Author:** ![Maera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maera/32/3190_2.png) [@Maera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maera)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/11 "2001-07-11T23:57:39Z")
Thanks for all of your responses. I apologized to my collegue today, and he told me that he hadn’t considered it offensive to himself at all. All’s well that ends well I suppose, but in the future, I’ll be more sensitive, and make certain the context is clear to all. Maera ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/12 "2001-07-12T01:48:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rue DeDay \* > It’s also a rather insulting, derogotory reference. On what basis do you reach this conclusion? Are we talking about the same thing as “niggardly,” or is there something other than misunderstanding to explain someone taking offense? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/13 "2001-07-12T01:52:06Z")
> [@](#): > > . I wonder if it’s ever been released on video, it’d be interesting to see it now with a different perspective I have a copy.😃 ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/14 "2001-07-12T02:29:54Z")
I have heard “tar baby” used as a slur by racist whites to refer to black people, but I only heard it used that way once. > [@](#): > > What about Brer Rabbit’s nemesis, Tar Baby? As author Toni Morrison says, the phrase was once used as a racial slur by an older generation. But these days, together with the briar patch, it’s one of the South’s most enduring metaphors. > [http://www.gsu.edu/~dsihhj/harris.htm](http://www.gsu.edu/~dsihhj/harris.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/15 "2001-07-12T03:40:08Z")
I’m really tired of having to be so sensitive to the infinite manifestations of political correctness. Didn’t someone fairly famous almost get fired for using niggardly? ---
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/16 "2001-07-12T04:28:58Z")
I should have said _"Didn’t someone fairly famous almost get fired for innocently using niggardly?_ ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/17 "2001-07-12T04:31:46Z")
I wouldn’t put it in the same category as “niggardly.” “Tar-baby” is used reasonably often as a racial slur. ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/18 "2001-07-12T13:42:36Z")
I saw “Song of the South” in the theater. This would probably have been sometime in the early-to-mid 1980s. Interesting now that such a thing would have still been “allowable” so recently; it seems like this movie draws a lot of ire these days. Sorry for the hijack, but just thought I’d mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/19 "2001-07-12T14:00:52Z")
I seem to remember back in the early days of “Saturday Night Live” that there was a skit with Richard Pryor. I believe that he was talking to a psychologist and doing word association. Each word the psychologist said was racist, and got more and more inflammatory, and “tar baby” was one of the words used. I never knew it had another meaning . . . until today. Thanks, everyone. (For the old fogies, this skit was on a “Saturday Night Live” LP that was put out a year or two after the show started.) ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051/20 "2001-07-12T14:13:29Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Ring_: > > Didn’t someone fairly famous almost get fired for innocently using niggardly? [http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/27/word.flap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/27/word.flap/index.html) > [@](#): > > An aide to the District of Columbia’s mayor resigned Tuesday citing pressure from controversy over his use of the word “niggardly,” which some deemed a racial slur. So instead of appealing to education, let’s appeal to the lowest common denominator and boot the aide out of office :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > [Mayor Anthony] Williams told reporters Tuesday that holding a senior public office required good judgment, adding, “I don’t think that the use of this term showed the kind of judgment that I like to see in our top management.” > > \ > > Williams told reporters Tuesday that holding a senior public office required good judgment, adding, “I don’t think that the use of this term showed the kind of judgment that I like to see in our top management.” > > \ > > Williams said the issue reflects a “hurt” and “great divide” within the city and that race relations must be talked about openly in the nation’s capital. It sounds like the Mayor still doesn’t know what the word means. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-used-the-word-tar-baby/72051.md?page=2)