# I violently hate calculus and physics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144 "2004-10-08T02:37:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Trigonal\_Planar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/0ea827/32.png) [@Trigonal\_Planar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trigonal_Planar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/61 "2004-12-23T03:02:05Z")
I agree with the hating calculus part…so glad this term marks the end of the last calc course I’ll ever take! Physics, on the other hand, is just beautiful 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/62 "2004-12-23T19:41:57Z")
It’s amazing what taking Calc or Physics at a small school can do for you, as opposed to a University. Many large universities unfairly use the 100 level Calculus, Physics and Chemistry classes as weed-out classes, instead of focusing on better techniques of teaching the class. If you can endure the lower level classes without getting bitter and disillusioned, the upper division classes are really a wonderful experience in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/63 "2004-12-24T02:02:43Z")
> [@Trigonal Planar](#): > > I agree with the hating calculus part…so glad this term marks the end of the last calc course I’ll ever take! > > Physics, on the other hand, is just beautiful 🆒 I haven’t had physics yet but I’m worried it’ll be more of the same. I don’t think it’d be so bad if we had things explained to us more clearly, it just seems like we are given a vague description then told to solve problems that require a competent knowledge of the subject. A person can either pull their hair out and stare at a computer screen for an hour or they can talk to a competent mathematician for 3 minutes if they want to learn how to do a problem and sadly it seems like schools sometimes prefer teaching via the former method. Luckily I go to math lab all the time so I can get help when i’m lost, but some of those math lab people are assholes. Luckily the class got a bit better but i’m sure that was due to a variety of factors. Maybe the professor was weeding out the weak in the first month and a half then after that he started teaching more competently. I remember talking via IM to my friend about my professor and saying nobody knew what he was talking about the first month during each lecture, which seemed to be true. However in the last month or two of class most of what he said made sense. maybe I got used to the extra workload, maybe I understood the material better, I am not sure but it got a bit better a week or two after I made my original post. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/64 "2004-12-24T02:05:53Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > So, do you still violently hate calculus and physics? I hate being forced to learn them under threat of failure but the subjects themselves are really interesting. I like learning about integrals and derivitives and how they are used to find areas of objects. I’m sure physics will be a really interesting subject, I just hope that things are explained more clearly before we are given homework. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/65 "2005-01-28T01:36:21Z")
Well I just got back from my first Calculus II exam, and it was the easiest calculus exam i’ve ever had. I doubt I got an A though, there are too many stupid mistakes I could’ve made (I caught at least 4 or 5 stupid mistakes, but I’m sure I made 4 or 5 more). What is important though is that there was not a single problem I didn’t know how to do, or at the very least didn’t think I didn’t know how to do (they may not be the same thing). This test just covered rotations on the x and y axis, washer and shell methods, arc lengths & finding the area of something on its axis of rotation. What sucks is that for about 4-5 problems the professor said ‘write the integral then either calculate it by hand or do it on your calculator’ and I’m afraid I may have fucked that up. For example, if you are doing the function (3x^2 + 4x)dx on the interval 1,3 (an easy one) I would write it as (sum sign with 1 and 3 on it) 3x^2+4x dx. However he may have wanted us to integrate it when we wrote it and I didnt, I didn’t write (sum sign with 1 and 3 on it) x^3+2x^2 dx, I wrote the pre-integrated function. I hope I don’t lose tons of points for that. Anyway, this thread’s last reply is only a month old I don’t think bumping it is a crime, esp since it involves my changing views on calculus and physics. Right now I think calc is easy and physics is hard as hell. I don’t hate physics as much as I hated calc though, I just have alot of trouble with it. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/66 "2005-01-28T02:36:53Z")
Calc II was the easiest calc course I took, fully contrary to the experience of just about anyone I’ve spoken to. I’m glad to see I might not be alone. Physics, on the other hand … yech. I got an A in physics, but I’m not relishing the second course in the sequence. But I’d take five upper-division physics courses over this goddamned cockwhore-ish numerical analysis. FUCK YOU, NUMERICAL ANALYSIS. Maybe it’s the teacher; maybe it’s the book; maybe it’s me, or a little bit of everything. But fuck this shit. I keep telling people this every semester, but THIS will be the semester I fail all of my courses. Algorithms, fuck you! Digital logic, fuck your mother! Fuck YOU and then your MOTHER with the same fucking baseball bat! ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/67 "2005-01-28T04:19:47Z")
Calc I was made moderately difficult only by related rates. But Calc II, I still get nightmares about [sequences and series](http://www.stewartcalculus.com/media/4_inside_chapters.php?subaction=showfull&id=1090822719&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2&show_cat=2) (that book sucks a big donkey dick, by the way). ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/68 "2005-01-28T04:56:12Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > Calc I was made moderately difficult only by related rates. But Calc II, I still get nightmares about [sequences and series](http://www.stewartcalculus.com/media/4_inside_chapters.php?subaction=showfull&id=1090822719&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2&show_cat=2) (that book sucks a big donkey dick, by the way). Yehaw, that is my book. I have no idea what calc II will be like, I am only in the 3rd week of a 15 week class. Maybe it’ll be hell down the road I have no idea right now. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/69 "2005-01-28T05:12:45Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > But Calc II, I still get nightmares about [sequences and series](http://www.stewartcalculus.com/media/4_inside_chapters.php?subaction=showfull&id=1090822719&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2&show_cat=2) (that book sucks a big donkey dick, by the way). Huh. I rather liked that book; if anything it was too easy, and inadequately prepared me for the sort of thing I’m doing in my current classes whenever the sequences/series stuff comes up. That book pretty much taught me three semesters of calculus, since I rarely ever went to class. If you want a book that sucks donkey dick, try [here](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0534389937/qid=1106889417/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-6045240-0272110). Blech. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/70 "2013-09-14T18:45:58Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Violent hate. My educational background isn’t too bad, i’ve had 3 college math courses (algebra, pre-calculus and trigonometry). None of them were too bad and my grades were A, A, A-. I’ve also had 8 science course in college and I’m currently enrolled in 2 science courses (300 & 400 level) and calculus I and an A/H course. And fuck calculus to death. Calculus is worse than the 300 & 400 level science courses combined. I would probably opt to take another 300 and another 400 level science course over Calculus 211. I hate it so violently. > > I partially hate it because of all the work, spending 8-9 hours a week on homework isn’t unnatural. But I have done that for some science courses too and it didn’t bother me. I took a chemistry course in summer so it was accelerated, I put in 8-9 hours a week on average in there too, I didn’t love it but I didn’t hate it either. But most of my science courses haven’t required tons of effort. I assume the reason it didn’t bother me in the science courses is because I didn’t spend 8-9 hours every week and because the material was tangible. Sciences like anatomy & physiology, chemistry, biology, microbiology, virology, etc. are all tangible subjects. Its not esoteric stuff you’ve never seen or heard of before layered on more esoteric stuff you’ve never seen or heard of before being spouted by someone in a cheap suit with poor empathy skills exclaiming ‘this is why we have engineering’. Sciences are tangible subjects. Maybe thats why I did better in the earlier math courses, they were not as esoteric. And that the class wasn’t designed for people who had experience. > > I assume physics will be the same. I don’t know if its the instructor, the fact that i’m not good at calculus, or that i’m not trying hard enough. I assume a mixture. I have never taken a calculus class before and 80% of my class is 19 year olds who are fresh out of high school who have taken calculus in high school and maybe finite math in college. I have not done either, I just did trigonometry instead of finite. So I am at a disadvantage. I talked to a friend from college who took physics (calculus based physics, not algebra based) about which is harder, calculus or physics and he said calculus because at least physics was rational. So maybe physics won’t be as bad since its rational, tangible stuff. Maybe. > > I don’t care about grades in these classes to be honest. There is literally no way a low grade in calculus or physics will ever matter in my life. It will lower my GPA, but I can just take mickey mouse courses to compensate for that, all I care about is a C- so I don’t have to take the courses again. Unless I intend to go to graduate school for math and physics (which require a B or higher to get in) I will never need a good grade in these courses, and I would only go to college for calculus and physics if a prison gang threatened to rape my father or something. > > IUE has lower academic standards than IUB. I think that I will try to do Physics I and Calculus II in spring here at IUB. I figure I should go full ass into it just to get it over with. Then in summer I will try to do either linear algebra or Calculus III (I need either calculus III, linear algebra or intro to differential equations for my 3rd math class) and physics II at IUE if they are offered. If so then I will never have to take another calculus or physics course again. IUE is different than IUB, IUE is filled with people with GEDs, people who work 40 hours a week, single parents, blue collar people trying to work their way up in the world, etc. IUB is filled with 19 year old pre-med students with 3.8 GPAs from high school. So naturally the same classes are harder. So I figure take as much calculus and physics at IUE as I can to get it over with. > > After it is all done with I will go on [half.com](http://half.com) and buy some 10 year old hardcover editions of calculus and physics textbooks, set them up in the yard and shotgun them to shreds. Then I will dump them in a grave, shit in the grave and put up a tombstone that says ‘never again’. > > I think what bothers me the most is the esoteric-ness of it. Its not like a science course where you can see the info, or visualize it. Maybe i’m a visual learner and thats why I hate this course so much (since I can’t really visualize it), I don’t know but it does make sense. I have learned about myself that I learn info the best by seeing examples and diagrams, and calculus is esoteric where these things don’t exist as far as I can tell, at least not in this class. Maybe its the types of homework assignments that just ‘assume’ you understand the principles before you do. So maybe i’m a fish out of water in calculus and physics because the way I learn best doesn’t work on this subject. Take my earlier math classes, algebra pre-calc and trig. I was one of the top 3 students in all of these classes. In calculus I am near the 50% mark, 50% do better and 50% do worse. I personally don’t care about that I just feel afraid know that. I fear everyone else around me ‘gets it’ and I do not. Its probably not true though. > > Give me a C-, thats all I care about. I got an 83% on the first test, which is good enough to pass. Lets hope I can keep the momentum going so I can get out of this place. ☹ I was searching for a different thread on this board (something to do with physicians and what they can cure) when I came across this thread. I would give almost anything to go back to the days when taking calc and physics was my biggest problem in life. I miss college so much. I don’t know if that makes me pathetic that that phase of life was one of the few islands of stability in my life, but I don’t care. I miss those days when these were the worst problems I had. As I’ve gotten older my life has gotten more raw. FWIW, I failed Calc III in 2006, and as a result had to change my major to biochemistry (which only requires 2 semesters of calculus, not 3). Graduated in 2007. FWIW, Newtonian Physics was actually kind of fun. electrophysics was hard though. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/71 "2013-09-14T20:45:02Z")
The secret of college math classes is that multivariable calculus is the hardest math class in the entire school. That includes graduate classes. Multivariable calculus is the pinnacle of difficulty that can be reached before things get so impossible to deal with that you have to prove everything rigorously, which means that right after calculus you basically start over with easy stuff again in order to prove things. Eventually you reach multivariable calculus a second time (proving it this time) but it isn’t any harder than the first time really. Maybe once you get to algebraic geometry you finally get a harder class than the original multivariable calculus. ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/72 "2013-09-14T21:24:20Z")
Proof that zombies can’t count. However, I opened this and am posting to share [minutephysics](http://www.youtube.com/user/minutephysics). “Simply put: cool physics and other sweet science. “If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.” ~Rutherford via Einstein?” ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/73 "2013-09-14T21:24:59Z")
[REA Problem Solvers](http://store.rea.com/stguide-math-probsolve.html) These are good, complete sets of worked examples, ordered logically. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/74 "2013-09-14T21:28:59Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > The secret of college math classes is that multivariable calculus is the hardest math class in the entire school. That includes graduate classes. Mother@\*$^@(! That’s what made me give up hard science because I got a C and decided I couldn’t handle the math! ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/75 "2013-09-14T21:50:55Z")
The thing I hate most about physics is that teachers will abuse “approximately equal to” a little too much for my taste. I can’t remember the exact question, but when I was in thermodynamics there was some question about 2-dimensional thermal expansion. The question was just a standard “prove you can set up the equation and reduce it to this expression.” Such an easy question, it’s just algebra! Not even calc! I almost failed that test because I spent so long on that question. I couldn’t believe that I couldn’t solve it, it was so easy! Lo and behold, since two values were always very small (more or less by definition) we were supposed to see that multiplying those two was “almost equal” to zero and cancel the term, after which the reduction from the step I got to and the final equation was trivial. I still call bullshit on that question because I come from math-land, where “almost equal to zero” doesn’t mean shit. It’s either zero or it’s not. I can accept some things like the small angle approximation, but that’s because we’re told it’s an approximation. I can’t in good faith cancel very small terms to zero **when I’m not told an approximation is okay beforehand**. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/76 "2013-09-14T21:57:01Z")
@ Wesley: In Soviet Union, _Calc hates you!_ ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/77 "2013-09-14T22:08:16Z")
Oh, and a funny calc story from my Physics class. We had a question that involved the derivative of a product. 90% of the class got partial credit for realizing what they needed to do, but not being able to actually execute it because nobody could remember the quotient rule for differentiation. Seriously, it just almost never comes up. I got it, but it was only because we only needed to prove… something, I can’t remember. It involved lenses, and I realized that due to the properties of the function and what I needed to do I could effectively prove the same thing by doing this: f(x)/g(x) Take the log: log(f(x)/g(x)) = log(f(x))-log(g(x)) d/dx log(f(x)) - d/dx log(g(x)) Instead of taking the derivative of the quotient. Taking the log-derivative was a lot easier. I later learned that this was a real thing that people do all the time, gold star for me! ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/78 "2013-09-14T22:35:04Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Oh, and a funny calc story from my Physics class. We had a question that involved the derivative of a product. 90% of the class got partial credit for realizing what they needed to do, but not being able to actually execute it because nobody could remember the quotient rule for differentiation. Seriously, it just almost never comes up. Why not just write f(x)/g(x) as f(x)\*[g(x)]^(-1) and apply the power and product rules? I always thought the quotient rule was a silly little not-worth-memorizing thing. Like the double-angle formulas for sin and cos, once you learn Euler’s formula. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/79 "2013-09-14T22:44:49Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > . . . I would give almost anything to go back to the days when taking calc and physics was my biggest problem in life. I miss college so much. I don’t know if that makes me pathetic that that phase of life was one of the few islands of stability in my life, but I don’t care. I miss those days when these were the worst problems I had. As I’ve gotten older my life has gotten more raw. . . . College is comforting, because there actually are right answers. Follow the procedures and the checklists, and things go right. “Real Life” is ugly and messy and there often aren’t right answers. You have to spend a lot more time trying to figure out what to do next. (In my case, “real life” intruded on college when the advising office messed up the list of courses I needed, and I missed graduating…by one damned class. The bastards used the wrong checklist. That was my brutal introduction to the ugly, messy, screwed-up way that “real life” works. Like you, I’d love to go back! I’ve thought about taking that one missing class – but for $6,000? No.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144/80 "2013-09-14T23:01:44Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > The thing I hate most about physics is that teachers will abuse “approximately equal to” a little too much for my taste. > > I can’t remember the exact question, but when I was in thermodynamics there was some question about 2-dimensional thermal expansion. The question was just a standard “prove you can set up the equation and reduce it to this expression.” Such an easy question, it’s just algebra! Not even calc! > > I almost failed that test because I spent so long on that question. I couldn’t believe that I couldn’t solve it, it was so easy! > > Lo and behold, since two values were always very small (more or less by definition) we were supposed to see that multiplying those two was “almost equal” to zero and cancel the term, after which the reduction from the step I got to and the final equation was trivial. > > I still call bullshit on that question because I come from math-land, where “almost equal to zero” doesn’t mean shit. It’s either zero or it’s not. I can accept some things like the small angle approximation, but that’s because we’re told it’s an approximation. I can’t in good faith cancel very small terms to zero **when I’m not told an approximation is okay beforehand**. Assuming this was NOT the first time you had encountered that idea, then I don’t see the problem. Physics is about understanding the real world, not about being mathematically pure. If being pure doesn’t get you an answer, then what good is it? Everything is an approximation anyway. There are not frictionless surfaces, lossless transmission wires, perfectly spherical objects, or “perfect springs”. Don’t make me to tell you the physics joke about the spherical horse. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-violently-hate-calculus-and-physics/268144.md?page=5)