# I want less information (about calories on fast food menus) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145 "2009-11-19T14:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/21 "2009-11-19T20:37:11Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Sit down before reading this: there are still people out there who _don’t have cell phones at all_. Sit down before reading this: there are still people out there without electricity. Doesn’t mean it isn’t ok to assume a good portion of the population does. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/22 "2009-11-19T20:56:37Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Sit down before reading this: there are still people out there without electricity. Doesn’t mean it isn’t ok to assume a good portion of the population does. I’m going to go ahead and assume that most people don’t have internet capable phones. Isn’t perfect information one of the characteristics of a perfectly free market? I know we aren’t really heading for a perfectly free market, but it seems odd that a step towards a perfectly free market is being condemned as government intrusion. My only quibble is that it only hits fast food. Regular restaurants have plenty of unhealthy options as well. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/23 "2009-11-19T21:11:27Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > Regular restaurants have plenty of unhealthy options as well. Regular restaurants also have more variability. Less so in the family chains like Olive Garden or Applebee’s where the cook’s job is mostly just heating up pre-made meals, but it’s going to be difficult to tally up the calories in a real meal made by a real chef, because they’re all going to be a little different from each other. Fast food is easier to do this with because portions are so strictly controlled and there’s much less chance of ordering an “off menu” item or some such. As I think on it, many restaurants do already do a variation. While they can’t list caloric content easily, many will have specific dishes marked out as heart-healthy or vegetarian or what have you. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/24 "2009-11-19T21:11:57Z")
I thought, at least in New York, it was all restaurants? ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/25 "2009-11-19T21:22:57Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Regular restaurants also have more variability. Less so in the family chains like Olive Garden or Applebee’s where the cook’s job is mostly just heating up pre-made meals, but it’s going to be difficult to tally up the calories in a real meal made by a real chef, because they’re all going to be a little different from each other. Fast food is easier to do this with because portions are so strictly controlled and there’s much less chance of ordering an “off menu” item or some such. > > As I think on it, many restaurants do already do a variation. While they can’t list caloric content easily, many will have specific dishes marked out as heart-healthy or vegetarian or what have you. Yeah, and the fried pork rinds in the vending machine have “0 net carbs!” I also doubt that enforcement will be so strict that slight variation will cause a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/26 "2009-11-19T21:27:36Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > I’m going to go ahead and assume that most people don’t have internet capable phones. Well, I have an older model but it has internet capability. It isn’t “smart phone” internet, but it is a JDK (java) which is pretty standard in even the basic free models. There is a difference between smart phone and internet capable phone. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/27 "2009-11-19T21:37:53Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Well, I have an older model but it has internet capability. It isn’t “smart phone” internet, but it is a JDK (java) which is pretty standard in even the basic free models. > > There is a difference between smart phone and internet capable phone. huh, yeah, come to think about it, I think mine does too. I’ve always been afraid to use it because I have no idea how much I’ll be charged for it. I do still think the argument that this law shouldn’t happen because people can just up the info on their phone is a little insufficient, given how prevalent the complaint of “I want my phone to be a phone, and not a camera\whatever” seems to be. I like the posters McDonald’s has giving the full nutritional values of everything, and consider that sufficient information. However if a restaurant doesn’t have posters or pamphlets like that, then I’d like to see calorie information on menus ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/28 "2009-11-19T21:47:23Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > I do still think the argument that this law shouldn’t happen because people can just up the info on their phone is a little insufficient, given how prevalent the complaint of “I want my phone to be a phone, and not a camera\whatever” seems to be. I like the posters McDonald’s has giving the full nutritional values of everything, and consider that sufficient information. However if a restaurant doesn’t have posters or pamphlets like that, then I’d like to see calorie information on menus I agree, I was merely being pedantic and not arguing against the law. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/29 "2009-11-19T21:51:08Z")
Even if you don’t have an internet capable phone there are several text sites where you can text a question to them (2 are advertised on TV in fact). Almost every phone today has text capability. > [@](#): > > Why would it cost millions? Fast food restaurants change their menus, even if just cosmetically, pretty often. I wouldn’t have thought printers would charge vast extras for what essentially isn’t even a small amount of additional work. I’ve seen greater changes in menus from restaraunts than would be made if nutrional information were required. I’m guessing here, but forcing fast food restaurants to put this information on the menu would entail determining the caloric count for the food, then printing up the materials, then the labor involved in putting the information on the menu’s…this seems to me to easily run into millions, considering the 10’s of thousands of fast food restaurants out there. If it only cost $100 per restaurant (and I’m guessing it’d be much more), then 10,000 restaurants (again, guessing there are more) would be a million right there. Certainly they change their menus fairly often (though rarely do they change the WHOLE menu…usually just pricing and maybe some new item they are offering), but this is forcing them to change the whole structure of the menu and then maintain it after that (once they do it, I’m sure it wouldn’t be that big a deal to maintain…it’s the initial expense I’m thinking of). To me it just seems a waste…and it’s a waste that will be passed on to me, the consumer. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/30 "2009-11-19T22:01:26Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’m guessing here, but forcing fast food restaurants to put this information on the menu would entail determining the caloric count for the food Couldn’t they just text those sites that know how many calories are in the food? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/31 "2009-11-19T22:07:27Z")
[QUOTE=Taber] Couldn’t they just text those sites that know how many calories are in the food? [/QUOTE] Sure…gods knows how much they would charge us for THAT, though. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/32 "2009-11-19T22:13:11Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’m guessing here, but forcing fast food restaurants to put this information on the menu would entail determining the caloric count for the food, They already do. Go to any fast food website or walk into any restaurant. You’ll be able to find the nutritional information within 5 minutes, I guarantee you. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/33 "2009-11-19T22:16:34Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Even if you don’t have an internet capable phone there are several text sites where you can text a question to them (2 are advertised on TV in fact). Almost every phone today has text capability. > > I’m guessing here, but forcing fast food restaurants to put this information on the menu would entail determining the caloric count for the food, then printing up the materials, then the labor involved in putting the information on the menu’s…this seems to me to easily run into millions, considering the 10’s of thousands of fast food restaurants out there. If it only cost $100 per restaurant (and I’m guessing it’d be much more), then 10,000 restaurants (again, guessing there are more) would be a million right there. > > Certainly they change their menus fairly often (though rarely do they change the WHOLE menu…usually just pricing and maybe some new item they are offering), but this is forcing them to change the whole structure of the menu and then maintain it after that (once they do it, I’m sure it wouldn’t be that big a deal to maintain…it’s the initial expense I’m thinking of). > > To me it just seems a waste…and it’s a waste that will be passed on to me, the consumer. > > -XT Let’s review. It’s a one-time waste where each restraunt will divide its $100 cost among all its customers. How many customers does a single McDonalds restraunt serve a year again? 15? 20? Even with the local restraunts who only serve tens of thousands of meals a year aren’t going to stress over it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/34 "2009-11-19T22:20:06Z")
It’s still a waste, but yeah…I concede that a place like McDonald’s or Wendy’s can probably eat a few million dollars fairly easily, or pass it on to customers at the price of a few extra cents added onto the fries or a coke. -XT ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/35 "2009-11-19T22:24:06Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > It’s still a waste, but yeah…I concede that a place like McDonald’s or Wendy’s can probably eat a few million dollars fairly easily, or pass it on to customers at the price of a few extra cents added onto the fries or a coke. > > -XT Given the math, if they’re charging even a few extra cents for it (I take that word as being a plural), then they’re gouging you and just using the menus as an excuse. The actual costs of the menus would be a tiny fraction of a penny per customer. Of course, the _actual_ costs will be that the customers will be more aware of the health information and flee the restraunt screaming, cutting into sales. This is why McDonalds is brilliant; they put it all on a poster that few people bother to read or remember, where it isn’t on the menu that everyone stares at all the time. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/36 "2009-11-19T22:31:12Z")
I seriously doubt it would cut into sales, to be honest. I’m fully aware that McDonald’s type food is bad for you, but I still eat it (though I don’t eat at McDonald’s, specifically…not because the food is bad for you but because the food is just bad). Putting it on the menu isn’t going to stop people from eating there…it’s just going to cost money for no good reason. That’ it’s only (in theory) pennies per person (or fractions of pennies) is irrelevant…it’s still a waste to no good purpose that I can see. Has anyone ever determined if there is a correlation between warnings on cigarette packages and lower numbers of people smoking? Or if the lower numbers are from all the OTHER laws that have successively tightened the noose on smoking and changed the public’s perception of smoking? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/37 "2009-11-19T22:33:08Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Even if you don’t have an internet capable phone there are several text sites where you can text a question to them (2 are advertised on TV in fact). Almost every phone today has text capability. > > I’m guessing here, but forcing fast food restaurants to put this information on the menu would entail determining the caloric count for the food, then printing up the materials, then the labor involved in putting the information on the menu’s…this seems to me to easily run into millions, considering the 10’s of thousands of fast food restaurants out there. If it only cost $100 per restaurant (and I’m guessing it’d be much more), then 10,000 restaurants (again, guessing there are more) would be a million right there. > > Certainly they change their menus fairly often (though rarely do they change the WHOLE menu…usually just pricing and maybe some new item they are offering), but this is forcing them to change the whole structure of the menu and then maintain it after that (once they do it, I’m sure it wouldn’t be that big a deal to maintain…it’s the initial expense I’m thinking of). > > To me it just seems a waste…and it’s a waste that will be passed on to me, the consumer. Do people have a right to know what they’re eating, yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/38 "2009-11-19T22:33:43Z")
I think the first four words of your post title perfectly encapsulate the conservative weltanschauung. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/39 "2009-11-19T22:35:41Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Do people have a right to know what they’re eating, yes or no? [/QUOTE] Certainly. That’s what the Pure Food and Drug laws are for…to ensure people know what they are getting. Now, my question to you is…without these new laws, can people find out what’s in their McDonald’s hamburger? Yes or no? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_Doubt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Angel\_of\_Doubt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_Doubt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145/40 "2009-11-19T22:42:00Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I’m a counterexample - I care some about calories, but not enough to look crap up, much less to try to guess which proportions of which ingredients were used in the dish. (Heck, from a menu you often can’t even really tell how much of it you’ll be getting.) Clearly, if there is one person qualified to determine the caloric content of a meal (or any other objective qualities about it, for that matter), it’s the person selling it. > > Seriously, there is no credible reason for any consumer to want caloric information kept off of menus. I can say this because I don’t find “I want to use ignorance to be able to eat stupidly without guilt” to be a credible reason. You want to eat stupidly? Fine - go ahead. But do it with pride. Say to yourself, “I’m eating these 1400 calories and loving it baby! Yeah!” That’s the manly and noble way to go about becoming a porker. If you have to _con_ yourself to achieve that end, that’s just craven. Heh, I like your style, Begbert. And you make a good point about the source of the information. Personally, only carb counts are useful to me. Not sure about mandatory posting of calories, etc., but it should certainly be readily available and I would think the corporation’s concerns over doing so should be marginal given it’s a way to satisfy customers (how many?). Would they be allowed to “phase in” the info on menus or would it be a do-it-by-X-date kind of thing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-less-information-about-calories-on-fast-food-menus/518145.md?page=3)