# I want novels with intrigue and plotting like Game of Thrones **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 24, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715 "2012-10-24T12:14:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/1 "2012-10-24T12:14:45Z")
I’m quite addicted to George RR Martin’s series and the HBO show. One of the things I like best is all the machinations, whether battle plans or personal backstabbing, but best when it’s a combination of the two. While I wait for the next season of the show (and wait for the next book, probably coming when my elementary school kid is in high school), give me stuff to read in this vein please. It doesn’t need to be fantasy - a good story of corporate “battle” in modern America would be just as welcome, or anything in between. I’ll even start by offering my own. I loved [The Curse of Chalion](http://www.amazon.com/Curse-Chalion-Lois-McMaster-Bujold/dp/0380818604), by Bujold. Lots of court intrigue in a medieval fantasy setting. The characters are wonderful as well. I’ve rarely been so drawn in by the first chapter of a book. (I know there are semi-sequels, and they’re on my general reading list, but they seem like they may focus on other issues rather than plotting at the palace.) ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/2 "2012-10-24T13:37:26Z")
The Empire Trilogy [Empire Trilogy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Trilogy) by Wurts and Feist. You don’t need to have read any of their other books to love the scheming and plotting that Mara does to survive 🙂 Oh, and the [Lies of Locke Lamora](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lies_of_Locke_Lamora) and sequel by Scott Lynch are fun too! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/3 "2012-10-24T13:41:33Z")
Exactly what you are looking for is Katherine Kurtz’ [Deryni novels](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deryni_novels). ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/4 "2012-10-24T14:27:06Z")
Ken Follet’s “Pillars of the Earth” is right up your alley. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/5 "2012-10-24T14:44:33Z")
Some of the [Vlad Taltos](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_Taltos#Vlad_Taltos) series seem like they’d qualify. _Jhereg_ and _Yendi_, the first two written especially. Roger Zelazny’s Amber novels also come to mind. Plotting, backstabbing and intrigue everywhere. The [Belisarius series](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belisarius_series) involves quite a bit of intrigue, spying, manipulation, and clever battle plans & strategies. [The Shadow of the Lion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow_of_the_Lion) and sequels had quite bit of intrigue as I recall, being set in an alternate Venice with warring families and plots by various outside forces. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/6 "2012-10-24T14:58:58Z")
You want plotting and machinations? Here’s the motherlode: [I, Claudius](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Claudius) and **Claudius the God** by Robert Graves. Graves was both a poet and a classical scholar; the books are beautifully written and historically plausible. More to the point, while actual history probably diverges somewhat from the events that Graves portrays, the portrayals are masterful and as historical fiction Graves’ Claudius books are timeless classics. ETA: And full of plotting, machinations, evil villains, lovable rouges, and unpromising underdogs that turn out to be surprisingly capable. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/7 "2012-10-24T15:03:31Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > Ken Follet’s “Pillars of the Earth” is right up your alley. This. Loved that book couldn’t put it down. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/8 "2012-10-24T15:09:55Z")
The Kushiel series has a lot of intrigue plus kinky sex. Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/9 "2012-10-24T15:25:36Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > You want plotting and machinations? Here’s the motherlode: > > [I, Claudius](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Claudius) and **Claudius the God** by Robert Graves. > > Graves was both a poet and a classical scholar; the books are beautifully written and historically plausible. More to the point, while actual history probably diverges somewhat from the events that Graves portrays, the portrayals are masterful and as historical fiction Graves’ Claudius books are timeless classics. ETA: And full of plotting, machinations, evil villains, lovable rouges, and unpromising underdogs that turn out to be surprisingly capable. Yup, that’s the classic of the genre. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/10 "2012-10-24T15:42:33Z")
I enjoyed _Dune_, though it was a bit heavy-handed. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/11 "2012-10-24T15:56:42Z")
Not exactly the same question, but I posed a similar one here: > **[Did any long-term intricate story ever end well?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=625841)** > > Lost has become the poster child for finale disappointment lately. I know many people hated the end of BSG too (no spoilers, please, I’ve got 1/2 season to go! But I already get the feeling that “\[The Cylons\] have a plan” has been BS from the... One of the responses to that thread was the “Malazan Book of the Fallen” and I started reading it. I mention it only to NOT recommend it. I’m trudging through the first book, but unless it gets better in a hurry in the last 150 pages, I’m not going to continue any further than the first one. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/12 "2012-10-24T16:38:00Z")
There’s the Foreigner series by C. J. Cherryh. Lots of intrigue, but only one POV character. He’s trying to figure things out, do his job as a human translator for an alien species, and stay alive. You get to hear him constantly evaluate and re-evaluate actions, statements, and motives. There’s a lot of action, but I’d say 2/3 to 3/4 of the words in the books are descriptions of his internal evaluations. I know at least one reader who had to stop reading or go bonkers. But she has a decision making style that’s more reactive than evaluative. I enjoyed the first few, but I’m taking a break from them. If I’m not in the right mood, it starts to feel like work. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/13 "2012-10-24T17:14:40Z")
I know you asked for novels, but since you said you enjoyed the HBO show based on Martin’s novels, I would think that you’d also like watching the Spartacus series on Starz. Nothing beats the Romans for power-hungry machinations and intrigue. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/14 "2012-10-24T19:11:31Z")
This is awesome! Between this info and my discovery of John Scalzi, I’m not going to lack for reading material for a looong time. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Roger Zelazny’s Amber novels also come to mind. Plotting, backstabbing and intrigue everywhere. Dude, I literally put the Amber series in my Wishlist on Audible yesterday. I love A Night in the Lonesome October, so I figured I ought to check out more of his stuff. So this just shot right to the top of my list! > [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > The Kushiel series has a lot of intrigue plus kinky sex. Awesome. At least 3 of my friends have urged this series on me, but having read the beginning, I just cannot get past a child being presented as getting sexual satisfaction from masochism. No; shh; stop - I know, they are supposedly excellent and it’s not all about that and the books represent her exerting her power and so on, but can. not. get. past. it. > [@gonzoron](#): > > Not exactly the same question, but I posed a similar one here: > [Did any long-term intricate story ever end well? - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=625841) > > One of the responses to that thread was the “Malazan Book of the Fallen” and I started reading it. I mention it only to NOT recommend it. I’m trudging through the first book, but unless it gets better in a hurry in the last 150 pages, I’m not going to continue any further than the first one. You too? It’s been languishing on my Kindle for months, and reading it feels like such a flipping chore. I was thinking maybe once I got further in it would get captivating, but now I think I’m going to read everything suggested in this thread before forcing myself to slog through Gardens of the Moon. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/15 "2012-10-24T20:36:34Z")
Rabid _Malazan_ fan checking in. Intrigue and plotting are a big part of the series but there’s an awful lot more going on. And the Malazan books are heavy on high fantasy (Gods and Magic) so don’t really compare well with the ‘grittiness’ of _A Song of Ice and Fire_. _Gardens of the Moon_ is a bit tough to start with, don’t worry too much if you feel a bit lost. The next book _Deadhouse Gates_ is awesome and one of the standouts of the series. Many argue that the main storyline of the whole lot only comes to the fore in Book three anyway. We don’t need to limit ourselves to fantasy or sci-fi do we? ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/16 "2012-10-24T23:56:21Z")
Try _The Family Trade_ by Charles Stross. It’s the first in a science fiction series (_The Merchant Princes_) that reads like fantasy, and it’s got intrigue like nobody’s business–er, trade. I also recommend Paul Park’s \*A Princess of Roumania. \* ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/17 "2012-10-25T02:54:06Z")
Jeffrey Archer’s _First Among Equals_ is my favorite political novel. It’s about several politicians - some good, some bad, none perfect - as they ascend through the House of Commons and party leadership to vie against each other to become Prime Minister, in careers spanning the 1960s through the 1990s. Michael Dobbs’s _House of Cards_ is somewhat similar, but focuses on one extremely clever but amoral man as he schemes to become British PM over a much shorter time. It’s much more of a black comedy, while _First Among Equals_ is a political thriller. Gary Jennings’s _Aztec_ is a great historical novel about the last days of the Aztec Empire, as seen through the eyes of a peasant with a talent for linguistics who rises to become the Emperor’s top interpreter and diplomat. Plenty of scheming, palace intrigue, sex, warfare, diplomacy and exploration. All quite different; all very good. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/18 "2012-10-25T04:21:52Z")
I would recommend the [Honor Harrington series](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_Harrington). The human characters are fairly wooden and one dimensional but the missiles… oh the glorious missiles! The book explores their nuanced and vivid lives, the men and women who loved them, their nurturing and development, their complex strategies, their fights and ultimately of course, their sacrifices. ---
**Author:** ![hildea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ebca7d/32.png) [@hildea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hildea)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/19 "2012-10-25T05:01:06Z")
Elizabeth Moon’s [Serrano Legacy](http://www.goodreads.com/series/49611-the-serrano-legacy) and [Vatta’s War](http://www.goodreads.com/series/41099-vatta-s-war) series. Lots of military plots, but also quite a lot of politics. It reminds me a bit of Honor Harrington, but the main characters are more flawed, and thus more interesting. (Still very heroic, though.) Among other things, it deals with what happens to a society that has just developed technology for extreme longevity – what happens to the power structures, how do the young people deal with the fact that their parent’s generation won’t die off, etc. Colleen McCullogh’s [Masters of Rome](http://www.goodreads.com/series/43716-masters-of-rome) series has a lot in common with Game of Thrones. A vast gallery of people, lots of intrigues on all levels (personal and political, ranging from getting the funds to qualify for a seat in the Senate to becoming consul in order to lead armies to beat off the Gauls). It becomes a bit less interesting later in the books when Gaius Julius Caesar appears (not to be confused with his father Gaius Julius Caesar or his grandfather Gaius Julius Caesar), as McCullogh seems to think he wears his [underpants on the outside](http://superdickery.com/index.php?Itemid=45&id=28&layout=blog&option=com_content&view=category&limitstart=5). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715/20 "2012-10-25T05:11:57Z")
Hell, I’d just like to see that sort of stuff in the _Game of Thrones…_… (not happy with the last book) I second Colleen McCullogh’s Masters of Rome. And real history too. Amber is great… but each book is less great… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-novels-with-intrigue-and-plotting-like-game-of-thrones/638715.md?page=2)