# I want to be a Doctor Who fan. Where do I start? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 3, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704 "2009-01-03T15:40:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/21 "2009-01-04T06:28:49Z")
> [@](#): > > In fact, you won’t even find reference to Torchwood in Series 1 of the new Who. Actually, you will. In the penultimate episode, where Rose is put in a deadly quiz game, one of the questions is about the Torchwood institute. I think that was the first mention on the show. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/22 "2009-01-04T06:38:05Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Actually, you will. In the penultimate episode, where Rose is put in a deadly quiz game, one of the questions is about the Torchwood institute. I think that was the first mention on the show. Oh wow, I completely forgot that. Which does make it a bit odd as he wasn’t the Tenth Doctor yet, although that was 200,000 years in the future, so Torchwood would exist, even though the reason for it being created hadn’t happened yet and then it gets all wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/23 "2009-01-04T06:40:58Z")
And that WWII episode with the gas mask kid might have a little something to do with Torchwood. Just a little though. 😉 Also, if you really want to strech things, episode 2 at the end of the earth may or may not have some thing to do with a former model in the Boeshane Peninsula. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/24 "2009-01-04T08:09:35Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Overall, the new series is stronger dramatically than the original anyway. I love the first seven doctors and have seen nearly all the serials, but the writing in the revived version is better and the characters have much more depth. The older shows are still fun, but at a less ambitious level. This isn’t necessarily true. The old series did not develop the character of the Doctor much at all, but the format (most stories consisting of four half-hours) allowed for guest characters who were well-written and appealing, and who do a lot to carry the stories. This is one area where the new show has not caught up to the old – the “characters of the week” (as opposed to semi-regulars like Mickey) are not as interesting, and the show has yet to produce a guest cast on par with Talons of Weng-Chiang, Horror of Fang Rock, the Green Death (my fiancee never fails to mourn for Bert!) or City of Death. Not for nothing did RTD compare Holmes’ writing in Talons with Dennis Potter. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/25 "2009-01-04T16:08:37Z")
That’s definitely a good point, though there have been some very good one-shots – Sally Sparrow, River Song, and Nancy (in “The Empty Child”) come to mind (all written by Stephen Moffat, so there’s hope for the future). The show also took one-shot characters (Rose’s father) and had them recur. But, yes, characters like Henry Gordon Jago, Professor Litefoot (who should have had a series all his own), the Captain, Mr. Fibuli, Queen Xanxia, Doctor Solon, Mawdryn, Sil, the kangs, the rezzies, Pex, the Caretaker, Helen A., and Captain Cook really stand out. The main difference, though, is that they were two-dimensional characters (albeit great ones) where the new show tries for more depth – which makes characters less memorable at times. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/26 "2009-01-04T16:34:50Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > That’s definitely a good point, though there have been some very good one-shots – Sally Sparrow, River Song … Having just seen “Silence in the Library” River Song is obviously expected to make some more appearances before Alex Kingston ages too much. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/27 "2009-01-04T17:22:49Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Having just seen “Silence in the Library” River Song is obviously expected to make some more appearances before Alex Kingston ages too much. I don’t know about that. If she knew the Doctor when he was _older_, I don’t see how that could work with whom they picked for 11. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/28 "2009-01-04T18:28:12Z")
She apparently has an intimate relationship with him, one that goes beyond the usual companion relationship. She didn’t look at his _face_ and say how young he looks, but in his_eyes_, the “windows into his soul” - it was a comment on a more existential youth than a physical appearance I think. She knows his external form is not a reflection of how much he has aged. ---
**Author:** ![ryobserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@ryobserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryobserver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/29 "2009-01-05T01:14:18Z")
If you’re coming from Torchwood, you should start with the new series, as just about everyone has already said. When (if) you want to investigate the old series, it might be easiest to start with the stories that link somehow to the new series. There are many featuring the same villains and monsters: I think every Doctor had at least one Dalek and one Cybermen story, and nearly all had to deal with the Master. You can watch the bad guys change and evolve (or devolve, in the case of the Master). Or maybe after “School Reunion” you’ll want to go back and make Sarah Jane Smith’s better acquaintance. Or K9’s. You’ll know you’ve become a hardcore fan when you start delving into the spinoff media–the novels, the magazines, the comics, the audio dramas… ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/30 "2009-01-05T02:20:56Z")
Oh, God, I just watched Doctor Who and the Curse of Fatal Death and it was fecking hilarious. That was pretty damn funny. ---
**Author:** ![Alzarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@Alzarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alzarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/31 "2009-01-05T19:49:49Z")
There were more connections to Torchwood in Series 1 Doctor Who (Christopher Eccleston’s year) than has been mentioned. The actress who plays Gwen in Torchwood appears in “The Unquiet Dead” (Eccleston’s third episode) as Gwynetth in a story that takes place in Cardiff in Victorian times. It mentions the rift and everything. Toshiko has a small part to play in “Aliens in London” (Eccleston’s fourth episode) which gets referred to later in Torchwood. Then there is the 11th episode “Boomtown” which takes place in modern-day Cardiff, at the same location where Torchwood would later be located, and once again the rift is mentioned. Of course, Captain Jack plays an important role during the Eccleston series, so I would definitely recommend starting with the 2005 series. I absolutely adore Doctor Who of the 20th century, but perhaps it is best experienced once you’ve caught up with 21st century Who. I would even say starting with the very first episode from 1963 isn’t such a bad idea, as long as you go in with an open mind, and the understanding that it is very different from the series now. Still, watching the show develop and change over the decades is one of its charms. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/32 "2009-01-05T19:55:04Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > And that WWII episode with the gas mask kid might have a little something to do with Torchwood. Just a little though. 😉 > > Also, if you really want to strech things, episode 2 at the end of the earth may or may not have some thing to do with a former model in the Boeshane Peninsula. Time-wise, wasn’t the earliest reference to Torchwood the episode with the werewolf? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/33 "2009-01-05T20:08:32Z")
You should watch Torchwood and the new Doctor Who at the same time as there is interplay between the two series. Getting too far with one series ruins some of the surprises in the other series. Watch all the stories from the same year for both series before you go to the next season. Alternating Torchwood and Doctor Who will likely be the best way to watch them both. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/34 "2009-01-05T20:19:57Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The two main Douglas Adams episodes are “The Pirate Planet” and “City of Death” (using a pseudonym; one of the great Dr. Who episodes ever). He also wrote “Shada,” which was never aired, but was put out on videocassette in the late 80s (the production was halted by a strike, so it was incomplete; the video included commentary by Tom Baker on what would happen in the missing episodes). . . “Shada” is also available online at a BBC website as an eighth Doctor animation. The animation is, well, sketchy, but I enjoyed hearing the whole script. Sorry I don’t have the URL on hand. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/35 "2009-01-05T20:20:20Z")
The first direct reference to Torchwood in the Doctor Who series that I can think of is in _The Christmas Invasion_. Like you say though, _Tooth and Claw_ is chronologically where Torchwood gets created by Queen Victoria. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/36 "2009-01-05T20:23:37Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > The first direct reference to Torchwood in the Doctor Who series that I can think of is in _The Christmas Invasion_. Like you say though, _Tooth and Claw_ is chronologically where Torchwood gets created by Queen Victoria. Yes, “Time-wise” was my half-assed way of saying ‘chronologically’. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/37 "2009-03-21T16:05:30Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > And that WWII episode with the gas mask kid might have a little something to do with Torchwood. Just a little though. 😉 > > Also, if you really want to strech things, episode 2 at the end of the earth may or may not have some thing to do with a former model in the Boeshane Peninsula. Jack Harkness is introduced as a renegade time agent from the 51st century. The time agents and the 51st century are referred to in passing in _The Talons of Weng-Chiang_. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/38 "2009-03-21T21:58:22Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Yes, “Time-wise” was my half-assed way of saying ‘chronologically’. > > -Joe Oh, you meant “timey-wimey-wise.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704/39 "2009-03-22T03:54:23Z")
Regarding recurring minor characters, I rather liked Donna’s grandfather. I don’t know if you’d call him three-dimensional as a character, but he was a delightful old coot. When I grow up to be an old man, I’d not mind being rather like him. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-doctor-who-fan-where-do-i-start/479704.md?page=1)