# I want to be a Jew **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2002, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471 "2002-04-08T12:12:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/41 "2002-04-08T14:17:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > > I do want to be Jewish. I want to find a way to be a Jew without having to accept the religion. I see alot of others that are Jewish but not religious and I want to know why I am excluded. If you are racist just say it. I can accept that. \*\* I see a lot of people who live in THAT voting district, but choose not to vote. How can I become one of them without moving to their district? WHAT IS THE BLOODY POINT? You can’t be Jewish unless you’re born that way or convert. Just like you can’t be in the Mickey Mouse Club unless a family member is, or someone else asks you to join. So what? What, exactly, is it that you think you’re being excluded from? What is all this fun the Jews are having without you? L ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/42 "2002-04-08T14:18:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > > Do you care at all about how Jewish tradition affects gentiles? \*\* Do you want to enlighten us with your vast scholarly knowledge of Jewish tradition and gentiles? Care to fill that thimble? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/43 "2002-04-08T14:19:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > Man that is crazy. If you don’t believe in Jewish law or Catholic law why does it matter? \*\* So then why does it matter to you? You’re not Jewish. Why do you care about what Jewish law says about non-practising Jews? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/44 "2002-04-08T14:20:54Z")
> [@](#): > > If a group (Kiwanis, Boy Scouts, The House of Lords, whatever) which allow new members, has certain rules about who can join and how to join. What don’t you understand about that? So tell me how to join. I am not willing to accept the Jewish faith but I still want to join. You have plenty of members that do not accept the faith. What makes them better than me? ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/45 "2002-04-08T14:23:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > Why does the faith insist on including Athiest born to Jewish mothers? They would otherwise not need your protection. I would not persecute anyone for whom they were born to. You may not persecute, but there are plenty of people who would (and who have) persecuted on exactly this point. The Nazis persecuted anyone with a single Jewish grandparent. Those traditions stem mostly from external circumstance. IIRC it says nowhere in the Torah that Judaism is borne along a matrimonial descent. > [@](#): > > Alot of us gentiles (anyone who isn’t a Jew) feel inferior because we can’t be Jews. I see alot of Jews that aren’t religious, like me, but I can’t be a non religious Jew. I am a little jealous. Do you care at all about how Jewish tradition affects gentiles? Why would you feel inferior for not being Jewish? Are you trying to follow the same old corrupt “chosen people” argument? It doesn’t seem that way as it seems as though, not wanting to be religious, you couldn’t care much what God says. We, as Jews, get no special dispensation to do anything “extra” apart from religious duties and citizenship in Israel. As it has been pointed out, if you really want to, you too can be a citizen of Israel. Just not automatically. You want special citizenship rights? Form a group called the Sweetwillites, get your group persecuted for 2000 years, and then convince the UN to give you a homeland in North Carolina. Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/46 "2002-04-08T14:28:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\*What makes them better than me? \*\* They have functioning brain cells. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/47 "2002-04-08T14:30:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > > So tell me how to join. I am not willing to accept the Jewish faith but I still want to join. \*\* Ah, thinks ranks right up there with: [ul] [li]I want to join PETA, but I like to club baby seals[/li][li]I want to join the Catholic church, but I don’t believe in Jesus[/li][li]I want to join the NRA, but I don’t believe in the second amendment[/li][li]I want to join the AARP, but I’m only 17[/li][li]I want to join the communist party, but I still believe in capitilism[/li][/ul] Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/48 "2002-04-08T14:31:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\* > > Ah, thinks ranks right up there with: > \*\* D’oh! That should be “that ranks…” Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/49 "2002-04-08T14:36:10Z")
> [@](#): > > * * * > > ## Originally posted by Sweet Willy Do you care at all about how Jewish tradition affects gentiles? > > Do you want to enlighten us with your vast scholarly knowledge of Jewish tradition and gentiles? Care to fill that thimble? > > Zev Steinhardt **Zev Steinhardt,** I asked a question. You answer with a question. Again, do you care at all how Jewish traditions affect gentiles? > [@](#): > > They have functioning brain cells. Really? Awww… you are just being funny. Do have anything productive to add? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/50 "2002-04-08T14:37:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beeblebrox \* > \*\*I want to be a small Hindu woman. \*\* I think we could agree that you have the _right_ to be a small Hindu Woman… ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/51 "2002-04-08T14:38:28Z")
Great post, Zev. But Sweet Willy will point out that membership in those groups is ONLY by joining, and can’t be automatic by birth. Which is why I’m waiting for him to explain why he objects to the analogy to American citizenship, which **is** automatic by birth, and available to others **only** if they agree to American ideals. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/52 "2002-04-08T14:38:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > **Zev Steinhardt,** I asked a question. You answer with a question. Again, do you care at all how Jewish traditions affect gentiles? > > \*\* I don’t think Jewish tradition affects gentiles at all. If you feel differently, please enlighten us (without quoting Israeli immigration policy again, please?) Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/53 "2002-04-08T14:39:43Z")
“So what’s wrong with a question?” ::d&r:: ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/54 "2002-04-08T14:39:55Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by Sweet Willy So tell me how to join. I am not willing to accept the Jewish faith but I still want to join. > > Ah, thinks ranks right up there with: > > I want to join PETA, but I like to club baby seals > > I want to join the Catholic church, but I don’t believe in Jesus > > I want to join the NRA, but I don’t believe in the second amendment > > I want to join the AARP, but I’m only 17 > > I want to join the communist party, but I still believe in capitilism > > Zev Steinhardt Yeah, now you are getting the picture: I am an ahtiest but I am a Jew. ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/55 "2002-04-08T14:40:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\*Do have anything productive to add? \*\* Yes. Nothing makes them better than you. The fact that they were born of a Jewish mother makes them DIFFERENT from you. Unless your mother was also Jewish, then you are the same in that regard. Apparently, you’re unable to tell the difference between “different from” and “better than.” I’m still waiting to find out exactly what benefits of being Jewish you are being so adamantly denied. ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/56 "2002-04-08T14:42:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Keeve \* > \*\*Great post, Zev. But Sweet Willy will point out that membership in those groups is ONLY by joining, and can’t be automatic by birth. Which is why I’m waiting for him to explain why he objects to the analogy to American citizenship, which **is** automatic by birth, and available to others **only** if they agree to American ideals. \*\* Ah, but you see he called my analogy of American citizenship a “poor” one, so he probably doesn’t feel bound to explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/57 "2002-04-08T14:45:56Z")
We got to Page Two only 2 hours and 26 minutes after the thread was opened. Does anyone know if that sets a record? ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/58 "2002-04-08T14:46:59Z")
> [@](#): > > The fact that they were born of a Jewish mother makes them DIFFERENT from you. How? How is my neighbor that lives in the same community, shops at the same market, drives a comparable automobile, shares my religious views, any different than me because his mom was a Jew? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/59 "2002-04-08T14:47:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > > Yeah, now you are getting the picture: > > I am an ahtiest but I am a Jew. \*\* If you are already a Jew, you can proclaim yourself an atheist, but you’re still a Jew. You can also proclaim yourself King of France, but you’re still a Jew. You can also proclaim yourself to be a Burger King Chicken Whopper, but you’re still a Jew. If you’re not a Jew, then you have to apply for membership and follow the rules for applying for membership. Now repeat after me: “If you don’t like the club rules, then don’t join the club.” Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471/60 "2002-04-08T14:53:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > > How? How is my neighbor that lives in the same community, shops at the same market, drives a comparable automobile, shares my religious views, any different than me because his mom was a Jew? \*\* You do know what “different” means, do you not? Let’s say your neighbors mother had been a chicken sexer. Then your neighbor would be different from you in the sense that HIS mother was a chicken sexer, while yours was not. Or perhaps his mother had blonde hair, but yours was brunette. Those are DIFFERENCES. They do not, however, make one of you better than the other. Should you at any time choose to inform me why you think your neighbor with the Jewish mother is getting privileges or rights that you don’t have, then maybe I can answer THOSE accusations. But until then, perhaps the purchase of a simple dictionary would be in your best interest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-be-a-jew/102471.md?page=4)