# I want to find buried water pipes and/or power lines **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 24, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463 "2009-08-24T04:20:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/21 "2009-08-25T02:49:14Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Dowsing is snake oil as far as I’m concerned. I only have 2 copper wires, no other instruments or tools. I have a hard time believing someone could find water or power lines with just the copper wires, but maybe I’m ignorant 😃 I never could but My mom was fairly good at it and my Dad only fair. On the ranch Mom found the location to dig to get water. Dad was looking for a water line once looking for a leak. But he came up with a electrical line thaat was buried. My brother could some times. But no matter how many times Mom tried to show me I could not get it. She she did not use a wire but a willow switch. ---
**Author:** ![alien21010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@alien21010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alien21010)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/22 "2009-08-25T02:54:39Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > No dowser has been able to prove their abilities in an objective, blinded attempt and it’s been tried many times. I never said that they had. AFAIK, there have never been any double blind studies comparing the effectiveness of geophysics to that of dowsing. > [@](#): > > The JREF has conducted tests where they put 10 pipes underground and have a mechanism for switching which one the water is going through. No one has ever done better than chance. I am not a proponent of dowsing by any means, but dowsers would be right to neglect this kind of study, as it fails to reproduce ANY of the conditions that they claim success in. One of the only scientific studies that I can find on dowsing, is available at: [http://www.jse.com/betz\_toc.html](http://www.jse.com/betz_toc.html) (search for Dowsing), (summary available at [http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/1281661.html](http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/1281661.html)). According to them, dowsing was wildly successful during the course of their research, much more so than would be expected. They also tried experiments similar to those carried out by JREF and found that dowsing under those conditions resulted in poor results. Could there be something else at play here? I do not know, but I do know that there is quite simply a \*\* tremendous \*\* lack of knowledge on the subject. I would like to note that I am not sure what, if any, scientific legitimacy the above mentioned organization has. They are basically the only ones who have done any work in the field with dowsing and published it. > [@](#): > > Come on, really, a better record? Do you have any sort of evidence or cite? > > Dowsing is entirely bullshit. A dowser may be able to legitimately find what they’re looking for, but it’s only because they know where it is through some observational method and then either lie or fool themselves with the ideomotor effect. > > Or you can just have open ended criteria. For instance, I read about a contractor who would on his job dowse for various man made objects. He claimed that the majority of time, when his dowsing tool indicated an area, it was within 10 feet (IIRC) of an electrical line, or water line, or sewage line, or something. Basically anything. But if you just walk around a random construction zone and stop in random places, you’re likely to be within 10 feet of something man made. I agree that dowsers are most likely using substantial knowledge regarding the geology and/or other markers that indicate the presence of objects (surprisingly these are very common). However, anecdotal evidence is very strongly in the favor of dowsing. See the link below (trained geophysicists using dowsing?!): [http://www.virginiagroundwater.com/index.php?option=com\_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=55](http://www.virginiagroundwater.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=55) While it makes perfect sense to disregard dowsing at face value, the simple answer is that there is not enough scientific evidence to make a judgment either way. However, I suspect that we will find that dowsing has no legitimate basis in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/23 "2009-08-25T04:08:13Z")
> [@alien21010](#): > > I am not a proponent of dowsing by any means, but dowsers would be right to neglect this kind of study, as it fails to reproduce ANY of the conditions that they claim success in. Except that they do claim success in the way he tests them. His M.O. is usually to ask someone what they say they can do, then work with them to design a test around that. Of course, on occasions where there have been mass tests, this isn’t possible. But he always does the test first with their knowing where the target is, and they always agree that the setup is working for them. Then he blinds it, and they can’t find the target anymore. > [@](#): > > While it makes perfect sense to disregard dowsing at face value, the simple answer is that there is not enough scientific evidence to make a judgment either way. This brings up the usual points about extraordinary claims, the burden of proof, and null hypotheses. The scientific way is to recognize that dowsing is an extraordinary claim, and unless sufficient evidence is presented to make a convincing case, the null hypothesis (that dowsing is bullshit) must be provisionally accepted, unless/until such evidence is manifested. That’s the scientific way to make a judgment. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/24 "2009-08-25T06:27:50Z")
Magnetometers are used by Archeologists to map the subsurface. Flowing water will certainly deposit minerals over time which should produce a weak magnetic field. Since birds are capable of detecting magnetic variations it is not out bounds to consider it is possible for other mammals be capable of this. Anecdotal story. A “dowser” was asked to search for water on a historical site in my area. He was not told why. He marked out the most likely locations and it formed a line on the property. They were looking for a water race once used to power equipment. I’m not going to empty my bank account betting on his ability but I thought it interesting. And no, there is no way of knowing if he plotted out the correct location of the race. I’m not promoting dowsing as fact but I am putting forth the idea that the test should not be for water but for geo-recognizable changes in the sub-strata that could be detectable in the same way other mammals perceive it. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/25 "2009-08-25T07:01:21Z")
I took a class on dowsing once. I don’t care if it works or not. It is still an impressive trick even for the person that is doing it. A ‘Y’ shaped branch will practically break off in your hand if you think you sense something. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/26 "2009-08-25T15:27:22Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > Thank you, I’m glad it’s a science question and not a ‘how to’ question. But I thought I’d state the obvious just in case. > > Google searches sometimes lead right to the SDMB, so you can’t be too careful, ya never know who might be taking this seriously. Yeah, despite the fact I was hoping to steer this back towards the empirical evidence side of things, it’s unfortunately kept pretty steady with decidedly pronounced un-scientific anecdotes. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/27 "2009-08-25T15:36:58Z")
\>Since birds are capable of detecting magnetic variations it is not out bounds to consider it is possible for other mammals be capable of this. Other mammals? A bird is not a mammal. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/28 "2009-08-25T19:53:48Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > Other mammals? A bird is not a mammal. Well, that’s true but since they have the brain capacity of a politician I lump them together with other warm-blooded animals. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/29 "2009-08-25T19:58:38Z")
Look, there is zero proof that humans have any organ that let them sense magentic fields. If you are making that claim then you are making an extraordinary claim and should provide extraordinary proof. For instance, please provide me with evidence that humans have some organ that can sense magnetic fields in the manner you propose. So far you have zero proof and the few studies that show double-blind (important!) dowsing experiments end up predictably showing chance. Nothing more. So you can speculate all you want, but youre talking sci-fi, not reality. Anecdotes are not proof. Stories are not evidence. Dowsing is not real. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/30 "2009-08-26T00:06:02Z")
> [@alien21010](#): > > However, anecdotal evidence is very strongly in the favor of dowsing. Yeah, but so what? Anecdotal evidence is talk. Talk is cheap. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/31 "2009-08-26T00:18:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well, that’s true but since they have the brain capacity of a politician I lump them together with other warm-blooded animals. [Except crows!](http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/joshua_klein_on_the_intelligence_of_crows.html) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/32 "2009-08-26T03:36:11Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > [Except crows!](http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/joshua_klein_on_the_intelligence_of_crows.html) Wow :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/33 "2009-08-26T04:23:18Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > Look, there is zero proof that humans have any organ that let them sense magentic fields. What organ are birds using to navigate? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/34 "2009-08-26T11:01:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What organ are birds using to navigate? Cells containing magnetic particles have been identified in the brains of migratory birds. I don’t know if similar things exist in the brains of humans (although I expect not, as humans don’t generally migrate by flying). It’s also a bit of a leap from navigation by magnetoreception to the location of buried objects via a magnetic sense evolved for above-ground navigation. Why would that even work? ---
**Author:** ![Tully\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ab992/32.png) [@Tully\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tully_Mars)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/35 "2009-08-26T16:21:28Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Or if you are going to build something it falls in construction which is something I have some experience with. > Rick’s fool proof method of finding underground wires, pipes etc: > > 1. Rent a large, heavy, expensive piece of machinery to dig a trench. > 2. Dig said trench. > You will find every damn wire, pipe, hose conduit, sewer line and OG knows what else that is buried there. > 3. Pay to repair damages. > > Or you might just call a locating service. There’s also the Tully Mars method of finding water mains: 1. Dig a post hole. 2. Stop for a second or two when you see water puddling in the bottom of the hole and wonder out loud, “I must have hit a spring or something?” 3. Soundly thunk the post hole diggers down into the hole one more time, resulting in a four-foot high geyser. 4. Call up Mr. Jimmy, the rural water system manager, and explain to him what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/36 "2009-08-27T07:47:43Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Cells containing magnetic particles have been identified in the brains of migratory birds. > > I don’t know if similar things exist in the brains of humans (although I expect not, as humans don’t generally migrate by flying). > > It’s also a bit of a leap from navigation by magnetoreception to the location of buried objects via a magnetic sense evolved for above-ground navigation. Why would that even work? I’m not going to defend dowsing. Just throwing out that it’s possible for an animal to perceive more than the standard 5 senses. The brain is an amazing organ that we know little about. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/37 "2009-08-27T11:57:46Z")
The best way of using copper wire to find buried pipes/lines is to sell the copper for scrap, and use the proceeds to make a phone call to DigSafe or the equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/38 "2009-08-27T19:18:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not going to defend dowsing. Just throwing out that it’s possible for an animal to perceive more than the standard 5 senses. The brain is an amazing organ that we know little about. There are certainly more than five senses, e.g. sense of balance, sensitivity to heat, and others. ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/39 "2009-08-27T20:45:43Z")
Dowsing only works during a full moon. On a friday the 13th, And you must be a Scorpio. :rolleyes: Enough with the nonsense! We’re fighting ignorance here people. The only way to find anything underground with your copper wires is to insert said wires into the ground till you hit something hard. The object will more than likely be a rock so this method is pretty much ineffective. Admit defeat and call the utility company. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463/40 "2009-08-27T21:27:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not going to defend dowsing. Just throwing out that it’s possible for an animal to perceive more than the standard 5 senses. The brain is an amazing organ that we know little about. Fair enough - but at the end of it all, the problem with dowsing isn’t a shortage of interesting and perhaps plausible explanations, it’s a distinct lack of properly measurable results. At this stage in the game, there still isn’t really anything that demands an explanation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-find-buried-water-pipes-and-or-power-lines/507463.md?page=3)