# I want to fly. Seriously, movie prop/stage-setup question. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 12, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799 "2003-05-12T21:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/1 "2003-05-12T21:20:21Z")
I happen to have a large barn structure on my property. My wife and I bought the lot 2 years ago and do not use the large barn at all really. Dimensions: 120’ X 70’. Inside ceiling probably 50’. My wife and I and family cleared the whole thing out two years ago and had a large yard sale. So it’s empty basically. What would I need to be able to _‘Fly’_ in my barn? I’m asking about harnesses, wiring, tracks… What kind of wire to use? What kind of track to get? What kind of harness to obtain. The ones I have seen in movies are attached at two places on the body, usually at the hips. Anyone know where to obtain this kind of thing? Yes I know, the wife and I are bored. We always have a project going, and this looks like a good one. Last one I posted about was **How to build a midieval Longbow**. That was a fun project, but it didn’t take very long, and my wife can not even pull the bow back… Any help? ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/2 "2003-05-12T21:36:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phlosphr \* > \*\*What would I need to be able to _‘Fly’_ in my barn? \*\* All it takes is faith and trust–Oh! And something I forgot. Dust. _Dust? Dust?_ Yep! Just a liiiiiittle bit of pixie dust! ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/3 "2003-05-12T21:39:56Z")
Hmm… interesting challenge. Adding “peter pan” to the Google search string helps, but not much… No concrete answers or DIY diagrams offhand, but you could ask this guy. [http://www.clarion.edu/news/2003/feb/peter\_pan\_fly.htm](http://www.clarion.edu/news/2003/feb/peter_pan_fly.htm) > [@](#): > > STUDENTS LEARN TO FLY FOR PETER PAN > > A quartet of Clarion University theatre performers will reach new heights this week during the performances of “Peter Pan”. Flying is part of Peter Pan’s specialties and over the past weekend the students in the flying roles received aerial lessons from Delbert Hall of Hall Associates, Johnson City, Tenn. > > Late Friday afternoon, Hall provided a lecture to the cast and crew of “Peter Pan” explaining the nuts and bolts, safety aspects, and even the physics involved in placing an actor in the air. The actors were placed in their harnesses and got off the ground immediately following the presentation. Hall stayed through Saturday and Sunday to provide further instruction and help with the flying choreography for the play. > > “I plan to keep going until they know how to do everything,” says Hall. “I explain the different types of flying systems and how they work. The equipment for flying is quite basic. You need rope, cable, blocks, a track, hardware, harnesses, and winches or hoists.” And, he notes: > [@](#): > > The operators are an important part of the flying. Once in the air, the actors have no control of their direction or height. That is handled by members of the stage crew with a series of ropes that control height and direction of the flyer. So, it looks like if you do get one installed, it’ll have to be a team effort with you and the Missus. ---
**Author:** ![lightingtool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@lightingtool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lightingtool)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/4 "2003-05-12T22:20:29Z")
Wow. I have flown people in a theatrical setting before, but that was in a theatre, with all the usual theatrical toys. In a barn, huh? **Disclaimer** If Phlosphr uses any of my advice and ends up hurting himself, it’s not my fault. These are just ideas being said in a hypothetical conversation. I was, in fact, never here. Ok. First of all, you’ll need a harness. In the past I’ve used both OSHA safety gear and full body climbing gear. Find something that is comfortable for you. It must be a full body harness. Most of these have a single point on the back, but you can (with the help of a trained proffesional) add another point to level you out. Cable - 1/4" aircraft cable. I don’t have the paperwork in front of me, but it is rated for a hell of a lot more than you weigh. I’ve used 1/8" in the past, but I would rather use 1/4". Let me know what kind of flying you want to do and I’ll try to come up with some ideas for tracks and other systems. (who says my theatre background would never come in handy?) ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/5 "2003-05-12T22:58:52Z")
**Lightingtool** I have been following some of the things you have been saying, and was hoping you’d post to this thread. What I need is, if possible, brand names, or descriptions of the gear I’ll need. Right now we only have a 2 1/2 inch burlap rope swinging from the ceiling. ---
**Author:** ![herman\_and\_bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f1d935/32.png) [@herman\_and\_bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/herman_and_bill)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/6 "2003-05-12T23:13:36Z")
If it is an actual old barn, that has a loft where hay was stored, if you look way up in the top of the inside of the roof, there should already be a track that runs from one end to the other and was used with a what-cha-ma-callit for putting the hay in the mow. ---
**Author:** ![PRNYouth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PRNYouth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PRNYouth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/7 "2003-05-13T03:18:10Z")
Might wanna check out Fly By Foy. They are considered the industry leaders by many. If you want a professional system installed, they could do it … but it sounds like you want to do it yourself. So they may sell components. Never know until you ask. ---
**Author:** ![Ramjet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@Ramjet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramjet)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/8 "2003-05-13T04:52:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lightingtool \* > Let me know what kind of flying you want to do and I’ll try to come up with some ideas for tracks and other systems. > \*\* Greetings. I am a professional theatrical technical director. I would like to remind Lightingtool (who shouldn’t need reminding) that the number one cause of death in theatres in poor rigging. I won’t go into the number of Tinkerbells that have been killed or ended up quadriplegics due to lack of knowledge or incompetence. It would be a serious error in judgement for you to give advice on such a dangerous activity, particularly from long-distance, even if your specialty was rigging. If the original poster is serious about pursuing this activity, then I recommend that he first contact a structural engineer to find out what kind of load the BARN can take. It doesn’t matter what you attach to a roof, if the roof is going to collapse anyway. And please don’t tell me how big and strong the beams LOOK. Check it out. Then… As the other post recommended, contact either [Flying By Foy](http://www.flybyfoy.com) or [ZFX Flying Illusions](http://www.zfxflying.com) Both are highly experienced and knowledgable rigging firms that specialize in just the type of flying you suggest. Please, please, PLEASE do not attempt to “figger” this out on your own. That is too much like building your own bungee jumping setup. Pardon my rant, but I have seen too many near-serious rigging incidents. If I can prevent one unnecessary accident, I will die satisfied. RAMJET ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/9 "2003-05-13T05:34:22Z")
The elastic rope thingy that Angelina Jollie used on the movie Tomb Raider looks interesting for this. Have you seen it? More bouncing than flyin´ but I guess it´s easier to set up. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/10 "2003-05-13T12:28:41Z")
Ramjet, The Barn was completely restored and reinforced. We would not do anything silly that would get us hurt. We are planning on getting large mats. There is no Hayloft it is wide open, very large. I emailed flying by foy this morning and will see what they say … I am quite psyched, but I think the insurance fears may hold us off… We have kicked around the idea of opening the barn for community theaters, because the acoustics and vast size would be perfect. The stage flying would just be a fun by product if we open the theater. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/11 "2003-05-13T12:30:55Z")
Mods is it in your power to delete **MartL’s** post? ---
**Author:** ![lightingtool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@lightingtool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lightingtool)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/12 "2003-05-13T18:37:14Z")
Sorry folks. I thought this was more of a zip line question. While I take **very** mild offense to **Ramjet** ’s mildly condesending statement, I completely agree with his/her advice. I was imagining a much simpler setup, and I would never recommend installing a full-blown flying rig. Now that you have mentioned that the space may become a theatre, I would recommend **not** putting any kind of permanent flying rig in there at all. That is not the kind of system that a theatre should have installed. It creates a “I wanna try” attutude and it takes away some of the respect (fear) that people should have for such a setup. If you do end up with one, it would require constant testing, maintenance, and the ability to lock it up in such a way that it is never used without qualified supervision. **Phlosphr** , please send me an email if you want to continue this discussion, or if you have any questions about turning your barn into a stage. Best of luck. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/13 "2003-05-13T20:38:32Z")
A few years ago, I was involved in an Equity (professional) production of _Peter Pan_ with flying effects provided by Foy. I’ll echo what **DDG** said: It’s a team effort. The person hanging at the end of the wire is, in fact, hanging at the end of the wire. The “flying” happens when the burly crew members haul on one or another of a half-dozen cable controllers and pull the performer up or down the track, or raise or lower the performer, or whatever. The performer has zero control over any of this. I’ll also echo what **Ramjet** said, which I didn’t think was condescending at all. _This shit is dangerous._ In our production, our Wendy sprained her ankle _during a performance_ while making _the gentlest landing in the show._ (Luckily, this happened as she arrived in Neverland, so for the rest of the act all she had to do was lay there while the Lost Boys built the little house around her so she could poke her head out. She had to be replaced by the understudy at intermission, though, and when I went out to interact with the kids during the next act [I was playing one of Hook’s pirate goons], we heard a couple of them asking, “Did Wendy die?” :D) The point is, if a professional flying crew with years of experience couldn’t prevent an actor from being injured _in a performance situation in front of an audience_ even after weeks of rehearsal, there’s absolutely no way to assure the safety of people who are doing it just as a lark. May I gently recommend you look into trapezes instead? At least, swinging back and forth, you can get some “flying,” and you have a little more control than if you’re danging helplessly on a cable. You can do some cool stuff on a trapeze, and the rigging is a lot less complicated. ---
**Author:** ![lightingtool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@lightingtool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lightingtool)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/14 "2003-05-13T21:13:47Z")
ahhh, nuts. I don’t want to clog up this thread with pointless posts, but I do want to say I’m sorry to **Ramjet**. Your post was not condescending in any way. I had a bad morning, and I just assumed you were jumping down my throat. I’ll second the trapeze idea. An actual flying rig can be pretty boring and kind of scary for the person doing the flying. -tool ---
**Author:** ![Ramjet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@Ramjet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramjet)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-fly-seriously-movie-prop-stage-setup-question/174799/15 "2003-05-14T04:46:18Z")
Lightingtool: Allow _me_ to apologize to you, if I came across condescending. I certainly didn’t mean it that way. In fact, I was rather sure that you would agree with the sentiment I expressed (most responsible professionals do). I just meant to express a cautionary note for those in need of “don’t try this at home” reiteration. I am afraid that my writing style tends toward the stuffy, so feel free to wail on me for that. Phlosphr: As to the barn, please don’t be overconfident as to its strength. I have seen steel I-beams twisted due to loading in a manner inconsistent with their design. Your barn’s structural members were designed (presumably with a safety factor) specifically to serve the needs of your barn. If a force that was not anticipated by the original design is applied (i.e. torque from loads pulling at an angle or shock loads from “bouncing” a flying human), the members could possibly fail. I would recommend to you the book “Why Buildings Fall Down” by Matthys Levy and Mario Salvadori. It is a very readable and non-technical explanation of how unforseen forces act upon otherwise sound structures and cause them to fail. As far as turning the barn into a community theatre, GOOD ON YE!! The country needs all of the art and community participation it can get. Bless you for a truly generous impulse. If I can provide any direction or advice, please feel free to e-mail me.