# I want to make a rapier. now how would I do it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 18, 2001, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373 "2001-04-18T02:09:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/1 "2001-04-18T02:09:15Z")
I am interested in fencing. Unfortunately, I am a po’ high school student. I don’t have 100$ to drop on a top of the line foil. I even looked on ebay. No luck. I want to find a steel, or preferrably a titanium wire of suitable gauge to hold up. Are there any online suppliers? It would need to be flexible yet still hold its shape. The rest would be easy to assemble, and I can grind a tip onto it. Any help is much appreciated. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Aceospades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Aceospades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aceospades)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/2 "2001-04-18T03:48:55Z")
not a good idea. i don’t know much about the sport, but i do know that they make safty first. your foil(sp) would have to meet certin standerds that, unless your a weapon smith, a home made creation wouldn’t be able to match. your best bet is to save up your pennies and get the real thing. like i said, i don’t know much of the sport, but i do collect swords of all types. some of them are replickas(sp), some the real thing. all combat ready. there’s a certin satisfaction in owning a sword. it’s nice knowing that if someone broke into your house you can go to town on them without bothering with the gun lock (all in self defence of course). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/3 "2001-04-18T04:18:44Z")
Foils, bah! Find yourself a better weapon. To paraphrase Zelazny, fighting with a rapier is like holding a lit cigarette in your mouth without inhaling - it gives the general impression of swordplay, but that’s about it. Now the sabre, on the other hand… that’s a _man’s_ sword. Seriously, though, you should save tour money for a real sword. Fencing is very formalized, and there are too many regulations for your little project to succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/4 "2001-04-18T05:46:05Z")
Even better money-saving option: Convince your high school to start a fencing club. That way, they pay for the equipment, and you also get a few sparring partners to practice with. By the way, you do know that a foil isn’t the same thing as a rapier, right? ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/5 "2001-04-18T13:25:30Z")
I just wanted to make one to practice with. I am not intending to do any real fencing with it. My high school is kinda poor, so it would be hard to convince them to pay for it. Also, I have used other swords. I am in posession of a katana and bastard sword, and am looking for a scimitar. I wanted a foil for te speed of it. And yes, I know the difference. However, I was too tired to post up on it yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/6 "2001-04-18T14:01:53Z")
If you want a practice sword, stick a car arial into a handle, with a small plastic bowl as a guard. Getting the weight and lenght of the handle is the important thing. Hey presto, you’ll be slashing at Catherine Zeta Jones’ nightdress faster than… well, Michael Douglas. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/7 "2001-04-18T14:07:49Z")
Do not try to make your own weapon or you will probably end up hurting yourself. A truly usable rapier of fine quality, even set up only with a double-wide epee or schlager blade, will cost you at least $500. If you buy one of those trashy Iberian “rapiers” on ebay for $100, you will likely break the blade off on something, or even snap one of the quillions if you use it vehemently. > [@](#): > > By the way, you do know that a foil isn’t the same thing as a rapier, right? Acquiring a foil is a simpler matter. You can purchase a bottom of the line foil with a flimsy France Lames or hardass Ukranian blade for under $50. Try Triplette Competition Arms, American Fencers Supply, or Blade Fencing. > [@](#): > > Foils, bah! Find yourself a better weapon. To paraphrase Zelazny, fighting with a rapier is like holding a lit cigarette in your mouth without inhaling - it gives > the general impression of swordplay, but that’s about it. Apparently neither you nor Zelazny know what you are talking about. 😉 The rapier _is_ a real weapon, and one that is stunningly deadly and unforgiving. _La Verdadera Destreza_, Spanish-style rapier combat, is perhaps the most difficult single school of swordplay in the west. And as far as adrenalin and pure violence is concerned, you just can’t beat Italian rapier style. You’re in New York, Alessan…we do demonstrations fairly often. You should come to one. > [@](#): > > Now the sabre, on the other hand… that’s a man’s sword. I fence rapier _and_ sabre. I assure you, there is nothing about rapier that lacks manliness. Speaking of sabre, **Alessan** , how would you like to come to our classical Italian sabre tournament in June? > [@](#): > > want to find a steel, or preferrably a titanium wire of suitable gauge to hold up. Are there any online suppliers? It would need to be flexible yet still hold its > shape. The rest would be easy to assemble, and I can grind a tip onto it. Yes, there are many online suppliers. Just go to my fencing school’s site, located [here](http://www.martinez-destreza.com) and click on the links page. There are several web supply catalogues. Trust me. **Do not make it yourself.** Modern equipment does suck ass, but at least the makers have some idea of what they are doing. Swords are weapons, not tools, and should be respected as such. Hope this helps. MR ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/8 "2001-04-19T04:06:32Z")
Don’t mind me, Maeglin, it’s just the bitterness talking. I fenced sabre for a few years as a teenager, and I developed a certain hostility towards foilmen and -women and the like, mainly because there were so _many_ of you. I became sort of a sabre fanatic for a while - my favorite D&D character was a sabreman - and refused to watch movies featuring musketeers. I’ve more or less grown out of it, but old habits die hard. I’d love to see that tournament in July. I also visited your school’s website, and I gotta say… whoa. I haven’t touched a fencing sword for over a decade, but now my palm’s beginning to itch. Would it be possible…? ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/9 "2001-04-19T05:58:12Z")
Well, if your high school does not offer a fencing program, you can do what my husband did and join the local college’s fencing program. He got to be a “freshman” for four years :). He was able to look at the [US Fencing Association’s website](http://www.usfa.org) and find tournament legal blades off of their “Buying Equipment” links much cheaper than $100. (One such store being [The Fencing Post](http://www.thefencingpost.com).) He recommends the USFA’s site for information about fencing and tournaments and programs available in your area. It’s tough to fence all by yourself. His jaw almost dropped to the floor when I read him the part about the titanium wire in the OP, though. He said that even if the amount of titanium wire involved to make a foil were economically feasable (he was estimating much, much more than $100), titanium would not be a good material because it would break too easily. Leave the blademaking to the professionals. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/10 "2001-04-19T16:16:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I became sort of a sabre fanatic for a while - my > favorite D&D character was a sabreman - and refused to watch movies featuring musketeers. I’ve more or less grown out of it, but old > habits die hard. Sabre’s my weapon as well. I started with foil, but switched to sabre just about as soon as I could. Some call it a man’s weapon…some call it a butcher’s weapon…I say it’s both, and that’s why it kicks so much ass. 😉 > [@](#): > > 'd love to see that tournament in July. I also visited your school’s website, and I gotta say… whoa. I haven’t touched a fencing sword for over a decade, but > now my palm’s beginning to itch. Would it be possible…? Dude. You’re in New York. You’re not starving in the street. I have to miss class on Monday…see you Wednesday? Drop the Maestri an email or a phone call letting them know you plan to come. Otherwise they might not bring enough loaner gear. MR ---
**Author:** ![barton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@barton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barton)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/11 "2001-04-19T20:00:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Foils, bah! Find yourself a better weapon. To paraphrase Zelazny, fighting with a rapier is like holding a lit cigarette in your mouth without inhaling - it gives > > the general impression of swordplay, but that’s about it. > > Apparently neither you nor Zelazny know what you are talking about. 😉 The rapier _is_ a real weapon, and one that is stunningly deadly and unforgiving. _La Verdadera Destreza_, Spanish-style rapier combat, is perhaps the most difficult single school of swordplay in the west. And as far as adrenalin and pure violence is concerned, you just can’t beat Italian rapier style. You’re in New York, Alessan…we do demonstrations fairly often. You should come to one. > > \*\* If my memory does not fail me, I believe RZ was referring to the epee, not the rapier, which makes a bit more sense, as the former can be described as a heavily counterweighted sewing needle. I forget exactly where I saw this quote - I’m thinking Visual Guide? I would have to agree with Maeglin - a rapier in the right hands is not to be trifled with. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/12 "2001-04-19T20:53:42Z")
> [@](#): > > f my memory does not fail me, I believe RZ was referring to the epee, not the rapier, which makes a bit more sense, as the former can > be described as a heavily counterweighted sewing needle. Even if he were talking about the epee, he would still be wrong. 😉 While lacking in flamboyance, the epee is a spectacularly subtle and unforgiving weapon. A tiny mistake in timing or distance and you will lose your hand. Make a slightly graver error and you will find steel coming out the back of your mouth. Classical, not sport, epee fencing is not to be trifled with. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2001, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/13 "2001-04-20T01:06:57Z")
Do the German University fencing clubs still fence without protection or is that all in the past now? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2001, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/14 "2001-04-20T13:59:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Do the German University fencing clubs still fence without protection or is that all in the past now? There are still some crazy Germans who fence with mensur blades without protection. They have scars. Lots of scars. MR ---
**Author:** ![screech-owl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@screech-owl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screech-owl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2001, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/15 "2001-04-20T14:43:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > **…mensur blades…** What’s that? What’s it look like? Why have I not heard of this when I fenced (sport)? Are the used in the US? Legal? Nasty? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2001, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/16 "2001-04-20T16:19:44Z")
Seek and ye shall find. Mensur is a form of German fraternal dueling that some people still practice. Since sport fencing is not in fact fencing \, it is not unlikely that you would not have heard of it. 😉 The following is an excerpt from a piece by Chris Amberger. I don’t know him personally, but we have several mutual friends. When I meet him in October, I am sure he will show me his scars. > [@](#): > > To figure out why exactly the 20th-century Schlager system has been built around the artificial scenario of two armored men facing off in what amounts to a permanent corps-a-corps, you have to take a step back and examine what exactly the game is about, and how the Mensur fits into a larger, psycho-historical context… > > In my The Secret History of the Sword, I classify the Mensur (and by inference, its associated system) as Comment combat. In fact, the very term is derived from the Germanized French word “Comment”, meaning “set of rules”, which is these days exclusively applied to the rules regulating a Mensur. The rest can be found [here](http://www.swordhistory.com/hammerterz/broadsword.html). Definitely check out his book, _The Secret History of the Sword_. Definitely one of the best works of historical fencing scholarship out there. MR ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2001, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/17 "2001-04-20T16:30:31Z")
Seek and ye shall find. Mensur is a form of German fraternal dueling that some people still practice. Since sport fencing is not in fact fencing \, it is not unlikely that you would not have heard of it. 😉 The following is an excerpt from a piece by Chris Amberger. I don’t know him personally, but we have several mutual friends. When I meet him in October, I am sure he will show me his scars. > [@](#): > > To figure out why exactly the 20th-century Schlager system has been built around the artificial scenario of two armored men facing off in what amounts to a permanent corps-a-corps, you have to take a step back and examine what exactly the game is about, and how the Mensur fits into a larger, psycho-historical context… > > In my The Secret History of the Sword, I classify the Mensur (and by inference, its associated system) as Comment combat. In fact, the very term is derived from the Germanized French word “Comment”, meaning “set of rules”, which is these days exclusively applied to the rules regulating a Mensur. The rest can be found [here](http://www.swordhistory.com/hammerterz/broadsword.html). Definitely check out his book, _The Secret History of the Sword_. Definitely one of the best works of historical fencing scholarship out there. MR ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2001, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-make-a-rapier-now-how-would-i-do-it/62373/18 "2001-04-21T09:54:54Z")
- - - I’m not any expert, but as I understand it, a sword’s stiffness and flxibility are very much influenced by its tempering, which requires special equipment that heats and cools the whole length of blade accurately and evenly. A propane torch from Wal-Mart wouldn’t to do the trick. - Also, typical grades of titanium are not much stiffer than untempered steel; Ti’s main mechanical advantage is its fatigue resistance. If you still want to try, there are places that can get you this very kind of stuff. Shapiro Supply Co. ([www.shapirosupply.com](http://www.shapirosupply.com)) is one: they sell metal stock (including some Titanium), they will ship orders, they will sell almost everything by the foot, and their catalog [with prices] is online. -In all fairness, there might be other busineses for this, online too. This one is just my own local source of metal. - MC