# I want to offer a contrarian take on this story: BLAME THE WOMAN MOM **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2021, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686 "2021-05-22T12:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/181 "2021-05-24T22:12:16Z")
Seriously. I would imagine in order to get any shots off this violent lunatic would have had his gun within easy reach. He was just itching to kill someone. Anything could have set him off. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/182 "2021-05-24T22:24:51Z")
I’ve seen no end of African-Americans interviewed – many/most of whom make reference to having **[The Talk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_talk_(racism_in_the_United_States))** with their children. It’s heartbreaking. But should I/would you tell them **not** to have that talk with their children, because you think of it as “victim blaming ?” You think it perpetuates a broken system ? You think it lets sociopathic racists off the hook ? They’re just trying to keep their children _alive_. Many of them are doing that **while** they’re working diligently _as activists_ seeking to create a more just system. To quote Nicholson (“A Few Good Men”), “Deep down in places that you don’t talk about at parties …” you may very well have the same sort of talk with your kids – about what to do and what not to do in traffic, in crowds, in public, with strangers, with the authorities. And you may do that _on the heels of_ an incident like this one. Your job as a parent, in part, is to protect your kids from dangers. Sometimes, and at some ages, that’s by not making them aware of every sort of danger that exists. Sometimes, it’s by counseling them on navigating (ETA: even _potentially_) dangerous things safely. If others feel that this is utterly, axiomatically, irrefutably, and inarguably victim blaming, then so be it. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/183 "2021-05-24T22:39:48Z")
There’s a world of difference in having conversations about safety before something happens and explaining all the reasons something terrible that happened to you was really, even partially, your own fault. First, it’s cruel to do that to someone who is suffering. Second, you don’t know you’re right. Maybe even if you hadn’t flashed your wallet you still would’ve gotten mugged. Third, the actual situation matters. Having another driver angrily beep at you because you flipped them off might warrant a conversation about being more careful. After your kid’s been killed? It absolutely isn’t relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_McQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@Steve\_McQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_McQwark)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/184 "2021-05-24T22:44:31Z")
While I was writing my response, IvoryTowerDenizen said what I was going to say only much better. I second her response. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/185 "2021-05-24T23:07:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m sure I’m not the only person who has employed my horn in a completely legitimate circumstance, only to have the recipient of my gentle driving correction give me the finger. …you reminded me of something that happened to me maybe 20 years ago? I was driving around Kio Bay with my brother many years ago. Its a one-lane road and we were on a blind corner when this car accelerates and overtakes me. I honk my horn as the car settles in front of me: and the car just slams on their brakes in the middle of the road, forcing me to do the same. I look closer and it looks like I’ve honked a [Black Power](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Power_(New_Zealand_gang)) car. A heavily tattooed arm comes out the drivers side and gives me the finger. Then the car reverses a little, pauses, then accelerates and zooms off. I was petrified. But yeah, honking a horn can escalate things. Literally anything can escalate things. A look, a gesture, the time of day. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/186 "2021-05-24T23:39:38Z")
I neither honk at people nor give people the finger in traffic. For years my car had a broken horn, and didn’t realize it because i hadn’t tried to use it. (or maybe it had just broken, but when i noticed it was broken, when i wanted to tell a pedestrian blocking the entrance that i wanted to get out of the parking lot, I realized i hadn’t used it in a few years.) But neither ranks as “road rage” in my mind. Certainly, if either triggers someone to shoot at you, that someone was a psychopath waiting to kill someone. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/187 "2021-05-25T00:48:22Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > First, it’s cruel to do that to someone who is suffering. That is a true statement. If the woman was part of this board I would agree that my points made would be cruel to make. I don’t think she is. To me road rage is the peak of a process that begins with aggressive and angry drivers feeding off each other. Guns contribute but some use their car as a weapon. My wife once got into an argument over a parking spot when someone pulled into a spot she had been waiting for. She got out of the car, went to the window, and angrily said she had been sitting waiting for the spot. The guy swore at her and then put his car in gear and ran into her, running over her leg, resulting in a tibial plateau fracture. She got the plate number and he was arrested, convicted. Lucky she was not hurt worse. The man was clearly wrong and my wife “right”. She was the victim. And I tried to make sure she was convinced to never argue over a spot again no matter how right she is, that I love her and don’t want her, as said above, dead right. Was I victim blaming her? Excusing or justifying her assailant? Enabling her to be _raped_? Thank goodness she has forgiven me for those sins. If most drivers rarely used their horns in response to perceived rude driving by others, never flipped off others in traffic, let the aggressive asshole “win” and get there two minutes faster, there would be far fewer deaths on the road. The woman who lost her child is not likely on this board. Apparently lots of aggressive angry drivers are. (Yes I am sure that most who flip are largely those who also cut off others themselves.) I for one will let you cut me off, pass on the left, and just roll my eyes, or take a calming breath. I will ignore your fingers and give you extra space because I am even more afraid that you will drive erratically than I am that you will have a gun. I would never willingly let a minor child I am responsible for in your car. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/188 "2021-05-25T01:38:00Z")
My reply wasn’t to you and not about the mother in the OP. Please stop partially quoting me and changing the meaning of what I’m saying ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/189 "2021-05-25T02:06:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So was mine! She was a very devout Catholic. But she was also a heavy smoker, and she had a vocabulary that would make a trucker blush. Go figure. When I was at Bell Labs, one of the managers was a nun. My old boss had dinner one night with her and her Mother Superior. The Mother Superior swore like a sailor. So your grandmother was just being devout. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/190 "2021-05-25T02:12:32Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > My reply wasn’t to you and not about the mother in the OP. My apologies for misunderstanding the flow and thinking it was a comment about the mother. My mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/191 "2021-05-25T02:44:02Z")
I liked this thread better when we were making fun of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/192 "2021-05-25T03:23:10Z")
I thought a long time before responding to your pedestrian example. I AM a pedestrian. Due to vision issues, I haven’t driven in almost 3 years, so I walk everywhere. Not once, not twice, but three times in the last three years AFTER I looked both ways and when I HAD the Walk signal, drivers decided to be assholes. One driver actually nudged me, and I had to roll off his fender. Another kept surging toward me and yelling at me–again, I had the WALk signal. It seems to me a lot of this cautioning about not flipping off drivers is based on a need for reassurance: there are bad people out there, but if you don’t tick them off, you’ll probably be OK. In actuality, there are mad people out there, and you can set them off by _merely crossing the street_. **Is it partially my fault if I get hit since using a crosswalk WITH the walk signal, no matter how cautiously, apparently triggers road rage in some drivers?** ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/193 "2021-05-25T03:37:22Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The misogynistic OP is one thing but the actual event, do you think it has anything to do with gender? That the murderer was motivated to shoot because it was a woman who flipped them off and would have not done so had it been a man? No way to tell at present, AFAICT, but it’s very possible. Some people feel much angrier and more threatened about a woman “disrespecting” them than a man. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/194 "2021-05-25T05:31:12Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > In actuality, there are mad people out there, and you can set them off by _merely crossing the street_ . Okay so that reminds me of another shitty anecdote. I used to commute to Seattle daily by ferry and I lived within walking distance of the ferry terminal so I’d just walk home. One day I was departing the ferry with other commuters as usual. There was a metered crosswalk at a T-intersection near the terminal that myself and another person was crossing. There was a traffic light for cars as well that had an unprotected left turn; as in there was a green light, not a green arrow, which means people turning left had to yield to foot traffic. That day a subhuman who somehow managed to operate a vehicle decided to plow right through. Keep in mind, myself and another pedestrian were crossing with the WALK light, and she had to yield. She must have assumed a green light for her meant “plow anyone over” because she gunned it. Myself and the other man literally had to leap out of the way to avoid being hit as she _intentionally swerved into us_ out of her normal lane. To make matters worse, she screamed “Assholes!” out of her window as she sped past. With kids in the back seat staring at us. The other pedestrian looked at me stunned, and said, “I think that woman actually tried to kill us.” I nodded to him and said, “Yes she did.” He couldn’t believe it and was stunned, but I was just disgusted. The point is, there are people who get behind the wheel who are honest to God psychopaths that will commit homicide because they are having a shitty day. Maybe the kids in her car had pushed her too far. Maybe she wasn’t taking her medication that day. But I honestly could have died that day through absolutely no fault of my own. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/195 "2021-05-25T07:02:14Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > My wife once got into an argument over a parking spot when someone pulled into a spot she had been waiting for. She got out of the car, went to the window, and angrily said she had been sitting waiting for the spot. The guy swore at her and then put his car in gear and ran into her, running over her leg, resulting in a tibial plateau fracture. She got the plate number and he was arrested, convicted. Lucky she was not hurt worse. I am sorry your wife was his injured in this altercation. But I’m curious. It appears he left the scene of the accident/injury, so I’m glad he was arrested. So was he jailed? What was his sentence overall after injuring your wife? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/196 "2021-05-25T09:01:33Z")
> [@KennyT](#): > > I don’t mean to suggest that mom is entirely to blame here only that she deserves PART of the blame. I would like her called out for her poor choices. Kinda like a woman is partly or entirely to blame for going to a crowded bar wearing nothing but a sexy bikini, right? I predict it may already have been mentioned a few times\* but this sounds like victim shaming. \*I can’t make it all the way through a thread before posting. It’s because if I don’t respond to an early post while the idea is still in my head I will forget it. I learned this in the earlier part of my SDMB career. I apologize for this as it looks sloppy if I bring up some point that was already made 4000 times. I try to keep this to a minimum but I have rather serious ADHD. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/197 "2021-05-25T09:20:49Z")
> [@KennyT](#): > > Some women are trash (just like some men are) and we no longer call them out for it. Man, this reminds me so much of: _"I agree. It_ is _a horrible word but even so, some Blacks are just n_\*\*\*\*\* _even though most aren’t. It’s like White Trash."_ ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/198 "2021-05-25T10:39:56Z")
It was some years back but I think it was just some community service time. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/199 "2021-05-25T11:03:32Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > I can’t make it all the way through a thread before posting. It’s because if I don’t respond to an early post while the idea is still in my head I will forget it. I learned this in the earlier part of my SDMB career. One of the great things about Discourse is that if you grab a bit of text and hit the “Quote” button that pops up, you stay where you are in thread (at least I do, I guess other skins may respond differently). I was please to discover this - lets you potentially respond to many posts in a single one of yours. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/200 "2021-05-25T11:19:23Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I do the old double - beep. It’s friendlier. Yay, double beep! That’s what _everyone_ does on St Martin. My first time on the island I was nervously learning my way around, figuring out the numerous roundabouts (no traffic lights!), etc. People beeped at me, so I assumed I was screwing up and being chastised. No!! They were just beeping me as thanks for courteous driving. Allow someone to merge? beep-beep! Stop so someone can back out of a parking place? beep-beep!! It soon affects your driving style as you go out of your way to be beeped. St Martin, the friendly island. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686.md?page=11)