# I want to offer a contrarian take on this story: BLAME THE WOMAN MOM **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2021, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686 "2021-05-22T12:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![KennyT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce7236/32.png) [@KennyT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KennyT)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/221 "2021-05-29T13:33:17Z")
Hey now, that’s not fair! I’ve ben keeping up and reading. I have nothing more to contribute, and I have learned a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/222 "2021-05-29T15:20:19Z")
> [@KennyT](#): > > I have nothing more to contribute You’ve learned that much, at least. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/223 "2021-06-07T05:17:37Z")
Two people have been arrested on suspicion of causing the shooting death of Aiden Leos in a road rage incident last month. They are expected to be charged with murder. > **[Two suspects arrested in alleged road rage shooting of 6-year-old Aiden Leos](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-06-06/two-suspects-arrested-in-alleged-road-rage-shooting-of-6-year-old-aiden-leos)** > > Six-year-old Aiden Leos lay dying in his mother’s arms on the 55 Freeway in Orange last month. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/224 "2021-06-07T12:08:14Z")
Yet the mother is still walking free \< s \> ---
**Author:** ![KennyT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce7236/32.png) [@KennyT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KennyT)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/225 "2021-06-07T12:29:52Z")
> **[Marcus Anthony Eriz & Wynne Lee arrested Aiden Leos road rage shooting](https://scallywagandvagabond.com/2021/06/marcus-anthony-eriz-wynne-lee-costa-mesa-ca-couple-arrested-aiden-leos-road-rage-shooting/)** > > Marcus Anthony Eriz & Wynne Lee Costa Mesa Ca. couple arrested in road rage shooting of Aiden Leos 6 yr old boy shot dead along Orange highway ^lots of racist comment about “black violence” on those BREITBART type sites all 100% WRONG! this b: [https://khn.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/04/wynne-lee-3.jpg?w=640](https://khn.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/04/wynne-lee-3.jpg?w=640) any thoughts or comments? i’ll bet you she’s the shooter you can see it in her eyes a tip for Mr. ERIZ: give her up, don’t be a sucker to ‘toxic masculinity’ and try to take the blame for her. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/226 "2021-06-07T13:22:20Z")
> [@KennyT](#): > > I have nothing more to contribute, and I have learned a lot. > [@KennyT](#): > > i’ll bet you she’s the shooter > you can see it in her eyes Still a work in progress, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/227 "2021-06-07T13:25:20Z")
Holy Morher of God! You really are a fucking loon. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/228 "2021-06-07T13:59:02Z")
> [@KennyT](#): > > i’ll bet you she’s the shooter Well she’s a woman but I see no indication that she’s a woman mom so I’m unconvinced. (Actually I am more inclined to suspect the guy who posted pictures and videos of himself all over social media with guns but whatever.) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/229 "2021-06-07T14:25:51Z")
Still twisting yourself up to make sure a woman is guilty. Maybe she is, maybe she isn’t, but seem very invested in it being the woman. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/230 "2021-06-07T14:56:22Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Still a work in progress, I guess. Some people just need to emphasize the “It’s taking longer than we thought” tagline. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/231 "2021-06-07T16:47:04Z")
Seems like investigators should be able to determine where the shot was fired from. They know where the child was sitting when he was shot, and there’s a bullet hole in the trunk. I assumed that the shooter was in the passenger seat of their vehicle, and firing out of the right-side window. If it was the guy’s car and he was driving, that makes me suspect that his girlfriend could have fired the shot. But press reports aren’t always accurate. I expect I’ll hear more details as they’re released, or when the case goes to trial. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/232 "2021-06-07T19:02:50Z")
> [@KennyT](#): > > i’ll bet you she’s the shooter You really _really_ don’t like women, do you? > [@KennyT](#): > > a tip for Mr. ERIZ: give her up Wait, now he’s supposed to talk to the cops? Make up your mind already. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/233 "2021-06-07T19:05:46Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Wait, now he’s supposed to talk to the cops? Make up your mind already. Well, _there’s_ some food for thought… . I think a corollary to “Never talk to authorities” is “Never post on a message board where there are people smarter than you”. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/234 "2021-06-07T20:03:14Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I think a corollary to “Never talk to authorities” is “Never post on a message board where there are people smarter than you”. That might severely limit the OP’s options. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_McQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@Steve\_McQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_McQwark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/235 "2021-06-07T20:07:54Z")
Man, this message board really is a bubble. The Internet is filled with cess pools, I mean, message boards where the OP will be surrounded by his peers. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/236 "2021-06-07T20:34:37Z")
> [@Steve\_McQwark](#): > > The Internet is filled with cess pools, I mean, message boards where the OP will be surrounded by his peers. If it’s a cesspool, I think you mean “Pee -ers” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_McQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@Steve\_McQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_McQwark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/237 "2021-06-07T20:43:51Z")
I think you’re looking for the Trump schadenfreude thread, it’s down the hall and on your right. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/238 "2021-06-07T20:49:48Z")
These idiots have zero defense. What would they say? Uh, didn’t know there was a kid? We were aiming for the tire? They could’ve caused a big accident without hitting anyone. These dumb kids are toast. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/239 "2021-06-08T19:02:25Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I’ve seen no end of African-Americans interviewed – many/most of whom make reference to having **[The Talk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_talk_(racism_in_the_United_States))** with their children. It’s heartbreaking. > > But should I/would you tell them **not** to have that talk with their children, because you think of it as “victim blaming ?” You think it perpetuates a broken system ? You think it lets sociopathic racists off the hook ? No, but then (1) that’s not the subject we’re talking about and (2) “the Talk” (which I am familiar with) doesn’t take the form of pointing out a single incident and saying that it’s a “teachable moment.” The Talk is about a reasonable foreseeable circumstance. Unfortunately, cops are known to be more violent towards black people, particularly if they are rude to them. So a good parent teaches their kid to avoid the police as much as possible, and to be on their best behavior around them. What they don’t do is take the incident were Jamal got shot after he flipped off a cop, and then say it’s some “teachable moment.” If they did that, they would be blaming Jamal for being shot. It’s not a teachable moment. It’s a tragedy. There’s no attempt to try and prove that flipping off the cop led to the cop shooting him, even. Yet that’s exactly what goes on here. Everyone seems so sure that, if the woman hadn’t flipped him off, her son would be alive. That’s blaming her. If you say X would not have happened has someone not chosen to do Y, then you are blaming that person. That is blame. It is not the same thing as looking at situations in aggregate, looking for reasonably foreseeable risks, and then trying to mitigate them. That doesn’t actually blame anyone, because it’s done in aggregate. If you were to pull up statistics of how many people flipped people off while driving, and showed that there’s some appreciable risk of doing so, then maybe I could understand saying you should not flip someone off. But that’s not what we have here. We have a single incident. And you are not some company trying to mitigate the issue in the future. That would be about changing policy or something. But there’s nothing like that involved here. Addressing a few other things I see in your latest posts: flipping people off is not a “destructive practice” either. It doesn’t directly or even usually indirectly lead to causing destruction or harm. If flipping someone off were a “destructive practice,” then that is saying it is a wrong action. And, since the mother did this action, that is saying she did something wrong. And saying she did something wrong is blaming her. My argument boils down to this: you say you aren’t blaming her, but what you do say seems to ultimately require blaming her to make sense. I say this is a freak occurrence that could not have been predicted. And, if you want to argue people shouldn’t flip people off, you cannot use this incident as a “teachable moment.” It is not a “destructive behavior.” What the actual lesson should be is “don’t flip out if someone flips you off. It’s no big deal.” Then you can use this incident as an example of someone who did wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2021, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/240 "2021-06-09T05:08:56Z")
As of this evening the male arrestee has been charged with murder among other things and is facing a maximum of 40 years. The female with accessory and is looking at three years in he state pen and maybe another year in county jail. I’m not sure what the dual facilities is all about but it looks like the authorities have concluded the guy was the triggerman and the gal was the driver. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686.md?page=13)