# I want to offer a contrarian take on this story: BLAME THE WOMAN MOM **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2021, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686 "2021-05-22T12:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/41 "2021-05-22T19:22:06Z")
> [@KennyT](#): > > I apologize, I’m still learning. Not fucking fast enough, you fucking blackpiller. > [@](#): > > I don’t mean to suggest that mom is entirely to blame here only that she deserves PART of the blame. I would like her called out for her poor choices. She deserves exactly the same amount of blame as a rape victim does for wearing a low cut shirt walking home on a poorly lit street. None. Absolutely fucking zero. The only person in this situation who comes out of this thread looking worse than you is the fucking shooter. ---
**Author:** ![KennyT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce7236/32.png) [@KennyT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KennyT)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/42 "2021-05-22T19:30:57Z")
You wrote: "So curious. If the OP kept the sexist trolling out of the post would it have found some agreement? Say this was a dad with a MAGA hat who got into genitalia swinging contest with another man while with his kid? If the op in that case said most of the blame was on the shooter but a father should be aware that getting into a road rage altercation is taking on a risk of harm, not just to himself, that subjecting your child to that risk is reckless, and that he should keep his toxic masculinity in his pants at least while parenting? That he is not blameless for the tragic outcome. # FWIW and a bit of an aside, this is not blaming the victim. The victim is the kid, not the parent who engaged in aggressive maybe even bullying behaviors to an unknown person." Thank you sir, very well put! It’s appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/43 "2021-05-22T19:38:17Z")
Ah you forgot this was the SDMB, where you’ll always find a white knight so the troll can catch that second wind. @DSeid looks like he wants that tile role today. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/44 "2021-05-22T19:42:42Z")
The person I can remember with the who swore the most was my grandmother – she’s where I LEARNED all those words. So now I find out my grandmother was “unwomanly”! And just what does it mean to “dress inappropriately”? Like, wearing sneakers to a formal event? Not wearing a jacket when it’s cold outside? Please tell me! I don’t want to be “unwomanly”! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/45 "2021-05-22T19:47:32Z")
Nah. The op is a sexist troll. Stated clearly. Unwomanly?? No explanation other than trolling. AND I remain wondering what thoughts people have with the sexist trolling removed. ---
**Author:** ![KennyT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce7236/32.png) [@KennyT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KennyT)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/46 "2021-05-22T19:53:07Z")
Guinastasia wrote: The person I can remember with the who swore the most was my grandmother – she’s where I LEARNED all those words. So now I find out my grandmother was “unwomanly”! And just what does it mean to “dress inappropriately”? Like, wearing sneakers to a formal event? Not wearing a jacket when it’s cold outside? Please tell me! I don’t want to be “unwomanly”! * * * My response: ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/47 "2021-05-22T19:54:24Z")
I think the person driving the car was foolish to flip off another driver, period. It’s never a good move, no matter how frustrated you are. That said, I’d never say they deserve part of the blame, even if I do think it’s was poor choice that lead to extremely unexpected consequences. The other driver’s reaction was so disproportionate to the trigger, that I struggle with assigning any blame to the parent. Sort of like a spouse killing their partner for cheating on them. Cheating is bad, but the reaction is so horrible that I can’t have them share the blame for the outcome. And the parent is a victim too. They lost their child. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/48 "2021-05-22T19:56:36Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Say this was a dad with a MAGA hat who got into genitalia swinging contest with another man while with his kid? I’d say in that case, the shooter is entirely at fault. > [@DSeid](#): > > FWIW and a bit of an aside, this is not blaming the victim. The victim is the kid, not the parent who engaged in aggressive maybe even bullying behaviors to an unknown person. So a victim is _only_ someone who is killed? If someone came to your house and killed your family, you are not a victim, just your family? I have to disagree with this definition that you have made up in order to obfuscate the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/49 "2021-05-22T20:00:50Z")
Fingers don’t kill people. Except when they pull the trigger. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/50 "2021-05-22T20:08:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > AND I remain wondering what thoughts people have with the sexist trolling removed. I think it’s dangerous in this day and age to flip off another driver, but that doesn’t give the flippee to take it as a license to harm or kill the flipper. If anyone was wrong in this case it was the first driver who first cut off the other person and then used the the gun. I don’t assign blame to the flipper. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/51 "2021-05-22T20:11:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > The person I can remember with the who swore the most was my grandmother – she’s where I LEARNED all those words. So now I find out my grandmother was “unwomanly”! My grandmother was just the opposite. She never drank, smoked, or swore. She never even said the word “darn” or "shoot “or dang.” And not even “Heck.” She was deeply religious. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/52 "2021-05-22T20:28:44Z")
What is an Incell? for 400 please. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/53 "2021-05-22T20:34:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > KennyT, you’re sexist trash. But I like that he’s woke enough to specify that this is a woman mom, recognizing that there are a small number of men moms these days. 🙂 > [@DSeid](#): > > AND I remain wondering what thoughts people have with the sexist trolling removed. My thought on this was well stated by IvoryTowerDenizen. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > The other driver’s reaction was so disproportionate to the trigger, that I struggle with assigning any blame to the parent. Sort of like a spouse killing their partner for cheating on them. Cheating is bad, but the reaction is so horrible that I can’t have them share the blame for the outcome. Just from the quote, I had assumed that she gave the guy the finger, and then he cursed back, and there was some distracted driving, and she got into a traffic accident. And I was thinking she had some blame in that. But then I read what the article was actually about. And the shooter’s response was so grossly disproportionate to her actions that I can’t see how she gets any blame at all. And her sex, politics, etc. are completely irrelevant. Shooting a rude driver wearing a maga hat because he gives you the finger (or his kid) is freaking murder, and “stranger was rude to me” doesn’t come close to provoking murder. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/54 "2021-05-22T20:53:29Z")
No excuse to the murderer is offered. But I guess I see the potential for the crazy in the other car as less absurd a worry than most. Not completely unexpected. There are lots of violent insane people out there. Violent road rage events are not uncommon and the world is armed in America. My chest thumping with one of them out of a sense of bravado or bravada or just because I have had a bad day and a faceless rude person seems like the person to take it out on, is stupid enough under any circumstance. A non-zero risk. My doing it with a minor in the car? Irresponsible. I’ll concede a parent losing a child makes them a secondary victim as well. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/55 "2021-05-22T20:58:38Z")
Irresponsible yes. Rising to the level of sharing the blame for her child being killed, no. She’s not a second_ary_ victim. She’s a second victim of the shooter’s uncontrolled, sociopathic rage. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/56 "2021-05-22T21:01:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Violent road rage events are not uncommon and the world is armed in America. My chest thumping with one of them out of a sense of bravado or bravada or just because I have had a bad day and a faceless rude person seems like the person to take it out on, is stupid enough under any circumstance. Is that what you actually think happened here? Someone endangered her child by driving aggressively and recklessly. All she did was to flick them off. She didn’t do it because she was having a bad day and wanted to take it out on someone, she did it because that specific someone put her and her child in danger. Your need to blame this woman for her loss is inexplicable and disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/57 "2021-05-22T21:02:15Z")
So was mine! She was a very devout Catholic. But she was also a heavy smoker, and she had a vocabulary that would make a trucker blush. Go figure. The woman has any blame? She gave some guy the finger. No, it’s not exactly the smartest idea, but what the fuck, that somehow puts the blame on her for her child’s death? She was pissed because someone cut her off in traffic. Oh my god. And as for a “bad example”, if they’re like most kids, they’re probably already familiar with such language already. (Well, I was.) Go fuck a dead raccoon. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/58 "2021-05-22T21:06:24Z")
> [@TheCuse](#): > > doesn’t give the flippee to take it as I had someone give me the finger in traffic, and I felt like “This world is an ugly place” for for the rest of the day. Now, I have a reason, and a label for myself: I was the flippee. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/59 "2021-05-22T21:07:45Z")
^^I’ve been both 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/60 "2021-05-22T21:31:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Is that what you actually think happened here? Reading the article I have little idea what happened. She was cut off. And then she was in _front_ (?) of the car that cut her off flipping them the finger in the rear view mirror. Then a sociopath who was a passenger in that car behind her shot into her car with bullet going through the trunk and killing the child. Something is missing. Nothing I can imagine that excuses murder but something. I have no “need” to blame the woman. I also have no need to completely absolve her having had some responsibility for the tragic outcome. She was as described by @IvoryTowerDenizen: irresponsible … which was an abrogation of her responsibility as a parent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686.md?page=4)