# I want to offer a contrarian take on this story: BLAME THE WOMAN MOM **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2021, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686 "2021-05-22T12:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/81 "2021-05-22T23:34:10Z")
Look, man, I may be an eldritch wizard whose endless plots ensnare the entire galaxy, sowing discord and suspicion, driving brother against brother, undermining order and spreading chaos, until a frightened galaxy finally looks to me as the only one whose iron grasp can bring peace to a desperate and fractured Republic… but I’m not a fuckin’ _bigot_. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/82 "2021-05-22T23:48:10Z")
To be fair, he isn’t defending the misogyny contained in the OP. He’s just defending the murder of a 6 year old child. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/83 "2021-05-22T23:49:37Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Say this was a dad with a MAGA hat who got into genitalia swinging contest with another man while with his kid? If the op in that case said most of the blame was on the shooter but a father should be aware that getting into a road rage altercation is taking on a risk of harm, not just to himself, that subjecting your child to that risk is reckless, and that he should keep his toxic masculinity in his pants at least while parenting? That he is not blameless for the tragic outcome. > > FWIW and a bit of an aside, this is not blaming the victim. The victim is the kid, not the parent who engaged in aggressive maybe even bullying behaviors to an unknown person. I love how you alter the scenario here to make her single action seem like an “aggressive maybe even bullying behavior to an unknown person”. There was no genitalia swinging contest. The women simply flipped the shooter the bird after he cut her off. I also love how you then diminish her motherhood by claiming that she’s not also a victim. The MAGA hat was a nice touch too. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/84 "2021-05-22T23:52:24Z")
My post ASKED “So curious. If the OP kept the sexist trolling out of the post would it have found some agreement? Say this was a dad with a MAGA hat …” Yes I suspected that some here would be piling on the same reckless aggressiveness if was that and they were not distracted by the misogynistic trolling. But no, I did not say “had this been a MAGA wearing male, then he would not be blameless”. Nor does believing that _recklessness that results in harm equals some share of culpability_, of blame, equal a “need to blame this woman” … you do you though! > [@k9bfriender](#): > > that’s the story that’s in the article The story in the article, well now articles, is that she travelling with her one child in the car seat, was “cut off” by another car in the car pool lane. Nothing about feeling endangered or being endangered. So at that point the car that cut her off is ahead of her, right? Then cut to she is ahead of them (still both in the car pool lane) and flipping them off in her rear view mirror. Which you believe, in the story you created that is not in the articles, is because she was upset over her child having been endangered. After somehow she got ahead of them and flipped them off in her rear view mirror. The only scenario I can imagine is that this woman was upset at someone else who also did not beloing in the car pool lane getting in her way, gunned ahead of them, flipped them off as _she got ahead of them_. Fairly common road rage behavior at when pissed off at someone getting in your way. Not behavior of a mama or dada bear protecting their child. Reckless aggressive behavior that does not deserve what happened but was _worse_ than a parent ignorantly not realizing that the wading pool represented a risk even if the child was only in the yard alone for a very short period of time. Yeah we are all human and we get pissed driving. And giving into that pissedness with aggressiveness is stupid. Puts yourself at risk. Doing it with kids in the car **puts your kids at risk**. Don’t put your kids at needless risk by getting into aggressive pissing contests with random assholes on the road, even if it is just pulling up when possible in stuck traffic to flip them off, let alone working to get ahead of them to do it. Sure it gives some small satisfaction to do it, but breathe in and breathe out and don’t. Some of them are violent crazies. _We know that_. The violent crazy is still to blame, should be found and punished, but it may be your kid that dies. It’s not as big of a risk as the wading pool, not as big as the improperly secured gun, but it is a clear and avoidable risk. The parent who takes that risk IMHO has does have to live with that fact. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/85 "2021-05-22T23:56:11Z")
You done kenny’ed youself. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/86 "2021-05-23T00:07:54Z")
Okay, the parent has one quintillionth of the blame, the shooter has 75% of the blame and idiots like you have 24.99999999999999999% for defending psychopathic murderers. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/87 "2021-05-23T00:41:15Z")
It’s good to have friends in the hole you dug KennyT, real good! (Can we wish KennyT into the cornfield yet?) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/88 "2021-05-23T00:44:54Z")
> [@KennyT](#): > > Some women are trash (just like some men are) and we no longer call them out for it. > > This is unfortunate. Not in this case. The woman flipped somebody off and somebody called her out for it. By shooting at her. So according to your argument, the only thing that went wrong here is the innocent child was shot instead of the guilty mother. Do you see how wrong this is when I spell it out for you? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/89 "2021-05-23T00:47:18Z")
> [@Galactus](#): > > Is there a word for inadvertently pitting yourself? For the some, the word is “posting”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/90 "2021-05-23T00:57:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I remain wondering what thoughts people have with the sexist trolling removed. It wouldn’t make a difference on the issue of who was to blame. If somebody flips you off in traffic, you can ignore it. Or you can flip them off right back. Or honk your horn or swear at them. These are all reactions at the same level as the initial action. But shooting a gun? No, that is not a sane response to somebody flipping you off. If you shoot somebody in a situation like that, the blame is totally on you. It doesn’t matter if you hit the person who flipped you off or somebody else in the car or a pedestrian who was on the sidewalk. And it doesn’t matter if anyone involved was a man or a woman or what their political beliefs are or what they were wearing or who else was in the car with them. None of that matters. If you shoot somebody over some trivial issue like this, you are totally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/91 "2021-05-23T03:10:56Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So was mine! She was a very devout Catholic. But she was also a heavy smoker, and she had a vocabulary that would make a trucker blush. Go figure. > > The woman has any blame? She gave some guy the finger. No, it’s not exactly the smartest idea, but what the fuck, that somehow puts the blame on her for her child’s death? She was pissed because someone cut her off in traffic. Oh my god. > > And as for a “bad example”, if they’re like most kids, they’re probably already familiar with such language already. (Well, I was.) > > Go fuck a dead raccoon. Or a dead possum wearing burglar mask, if that’s all you can find. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/92 "2021-05-23T06:17:14Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > But no, I did not say “had this been a MAGA wearing male, then he would not be blameless”. Those were you words. The words in between were just justifications. > [@DSeid](#): > > Nor does believing that _recklessness that results in harm equals some share of culpability_ , of blame, equal a “need to blame this woman So, you are blaming her, while also saying that you don’t need to blame her? So why are you doing it, you just enjoy blaming parents who have lost a child? That’s kinda weird, man. > [@DSeid](#): > > The story in the article, well now articles, is that she travelling with her one child in the car seat, was “cut off” by another car in the car pool lane. Nothing about feeling endangered or being endangered. So at that point the car that cut her off is ahead of her, right? Then cut to she is ahead of them (still both in the car pool lane) and flipping them off in her rear view mirror. Not sure what you’ve been reading, the one in the OP is paywalled, so I read a few different articles. [Here’s one:](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-05-22/family-members-identify-child-killed-in-apparent-road-rage-shooting-in-orange) > [@](#): > > A white sedan with a man and woman inside cut her off as she tried to switch lanes to exit, the mother told a witness [who spoke with The Times on Friday](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-05-21/child-shot-during-road-rage-incident-on-the-55-freeway-in-orange-airlifted-to-hospital). She gestured to them and proceeded into the exit lane, and that’s when the shooting occurred, the witness said. [And another](https://abcnews.go.com/US/year-boy-fatally-shot-suspected-road-rage-incident/story?id=77833388) > [@](#): > > “She (Aiden’s mother) was merging to the right side to get away from this person, and as you can see if you go online and look at the photos, there’s one bullet shot in the trunk that went through the trunk and right through my nephew,” his uncle, John J. Cloonan III, said at a press conference Friday evening. Most of the rest that I see are either paywalled of say the same thing, sometimes word for word. > [@DSeid](#): > > The only scenario I can imagine is that this woman was upset at someone else who also did not beloing in the car pool lane getting in her way, gunned ahead of them, flipped them off as _she got ahead of them_ . So, you just made up a story that is not in the article there in order to create a scenario where you can blame her for someone shooting her child? She was not ahead of them in the same lane, she was in the exit lane next to them. You insinuate that she was doing something wrong by being in the carpool lane with your “also did not beloing [sic] in the carpool lane” even though the law is to have 2 people or more in your car, which she did. You have imagined this scenario completely at odds with the facts as they are known in order to be able to blame this woman for someone shooting her child. Why the fuck man? > [@DSeid](#): > > Yeah we are all human and we get pissed driving. And giving into that pissedness with aggressiveness is stupid. Puts yourself at risk. Doing it with kids in the car **puts your kids at risk**. You have not established that this happened, just done your best to make up stories in order to slander this person, who you don’t even see as a victim. The rest of your post is just further victim blaming, so I’m not going to respond to it. But you are welcome to keep digging this hole man, it’s pretty disturbing, but I’m morbidly curious as to how far you will go. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/93 "2021-05-23T10:37:31Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Not sure what you’ve been reading, the one in the OP is paywalled Worked for me. It said: > [@](#): > > Aiden Leos was in the rear of the family car being driven to school by his mother when **another motorist cut her off** while traveling in the car pool lane of the northbound side of State Route 55, in Orange, southeast of Los Angeles. > > Aiden’s mother was said to have given the other driver the finger in her **rear view mirror** , but the gesture set off a deadly and tragic chain of events. > > As she moved over to to her right, a gunman , possibly sitting in the passenger seat of the suspect’s car, suddenly fired into Aiden’s vehicle, striking the boy in the back. Bolding mine. Same story in the other article linked to in this thread. Play it out. You are cut off by another driver. Where is that car now relative to you? _Behind_ you? No. If someone cuts you off _you are behind them_. Yet after being cut off she flipped them off _in her rear view mirror_. Established in the other articles you cite as well that she somehow after being cut off got in front of them. Please explain how that happens. I’ve never been in front of someone after they cut me off. I’ve been angry that I’ve been cut off but they wouldn’t see anything as they are _ahead of me_. My being in front of them, with them in my rear view mirror, after being cut off would require me making an effort to make that happen … getting into a pissing match to gain some satisfaction. I certainly can understand the desire to get into and win that pissing match, I do. Maybe there is another way it happens but I am not able to imagine it. If you are, please share. Or don’t. AGAIN no excuse or justification of the murder. It was a horrible crime, a tragic senseless death, and the family is experiencing a horrible loss. Most of the OP was sexist trolling. AND _this_ much of the OP > [@KennyT](#): > > IT’S IRRESPONSIBLE TO ENGAGE IN ROAD RAGE WHEN YOU HAVE KIDS IN THE CAR is, in my mind true. To me that is an obvious thing and I really did think that without the added sexist trolling others here would have seen that as an obvious thing as well. And yes, I do believe that if _I_ as a parent did something irresponsible with my minor kids, and they ended up hurt or dead as a result, then I would have to live with some responsibility for that tragic outcome. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/94 "2021-05-23T11:16:46Z")
What guilt the parent will shoulder for the rest of their lives and what guilt they deserve to shoulder are two different things. I carry guilt for every misstep, both utterly accidental and those that were foreseeable, that caused my children any measure of harm. An outside observer would likely consider virtually all of it guilt I should not carry. But such is parenthood. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/95 "2021-05-23T11:26:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And yes, I do believe that if _I_ as a parent did something irresponsible with my minor kids, and they ended up hurt or dead as a result, then I would have to live with some responsibility for that tragic outcome. Maybe because some people assign blame to them in some insane attempt to excuse fucking child murderers. Rational Thinking: When my kid complained that the preschool teacher was hurting him, I should have followed up instead of telling him to stop making up stories. It’s partly my fault he got abused. Irrational Thinking: I shouldn’t have gone back to work, and put my child in daycare. It’s my fault he got abused, even if I had no reason to believe he was being abused. Asshole Thinking: Stupid irresponsible Mom. Working for money instead of being the Perfect SAHM. What a whore! Part of the reason why the Irrational Thinking occurs is because Asshole Thinking is all too common. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/96 "2021-05-23T12:13:44Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I don’t know if that indignant person ever went on to have a child or not, but if she did, I’m sure she learned a few lessons about real life parenting very quickly. I talked to another father about this once. His opinion, which I agree with is that it’s just impossible to be completely “responsible” 100% of the time. I think every parent has had a close call. But coming back to this, flipping someone off in a car shouldn’t be something you do, but also it shouldn’t result in getting shot at. I had a cousin flippantly use the “n” word as a joke in place with some rather large black guys, and while everyone agrees he was an idiot for saying that, and fortunate that the closest black guys were pretty cool about just letting him know he was an idiot. Had he been killed, that would not have been on him. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/97 "2021-05-23T17:19:53Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Play it out. You are cut off by another driver. Where is that car now relative to you? _Behind_ you? No. If someone cuts you off _you are behind them_ . Yet after being cut off she flipped them off _in her rear view mirror_ . Established in the other articles you cite as well that she somehow after being cut off got in front of them. > > Please explain how that happens. I’ve never been in front of someone after they cut me off. I’ve been angry that I’ve been cut off but they wouldn’t see anything as they are _ahead of me_ . My being in front of them, with them in my rear view mirror, after being cut off would require me making an effort to make that happen … getting into a pissing match to gain some satisfaction. I certainly can understand the desire to get into and win that pissing match, I do. > > Maybe there is another way it happens but I am not able to imagine it. If you are, please share. Or don’t. It is explained. After they cut her off she moved over into another lane. > ‘She [Aiden’s mother] was merging to the right side to get away from this person, and as you can see if you go online and look at the photos, there’s one bullet shot in the trunk that went through the trunk and right through my nephew,’ Cloonan explained. So she was cut off in the HOV lane (farthest left). Most likely the driver was going slow, which is generally the case when you get cut off; otherwise they aren’t impeding you. I’ve experienced that myself, as I’m traveling in the HOV lane going a good speed and someone decides to get in front of me and drive well under the speed limit. So she gets over to the right, out of the HOV lane, in order to go back to her previous speed. Which is a reasonable thing to do. She flips off the car as she passes them on the right, angry that someone forced her out of the lane. Someone in that car shot at her as she drove off, hitting the left trunk, passing through it, into the rear seat and hitting the child in the abdomen, killing him. [![](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/05/22/22/43298105-9606989-A_single_bullet_hole_can_be_clearly_seen_following_the_shooting_-a-4_1621718063406.jpg) ](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/05/22/22/43298105-9606989-A_single_bullet_hole_can_be_clearly_seen_following_the_shooting_-a-4_1621718063406.jpg) Her actions as a driver don’t seem reckless aside from flipping off the person. Nothing indicates her driving was problematic. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/98 "2021-05-23T18:23:48Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Rational Thinking: When my kid complained that the preschool teacher was hurting him, I should have followed up instead of telling him to stop making up stories. It’s partly my fault he got abused. Yes that is rational thinking. It takes some responsibility, some of the fault, and in no way excuses the monstrosity of the teacher’s abuse of the child. Some here would seem to want to say that the parent is the victim in this scenario, that recognizing the fault involved is both blaming the victim (due to some sick need to blame the victim) and excusing and justifying the preschool teacher’s abuse of the child. I do not see _that_ as a rational thought process. > [@Atamasama](#): > > She flips off the car as she passes them on the right … In her rear view mirror? FWIW it has been quite a while since I’ve driven in LA and maybe traffic patterns have changed due to COVID but SR-55 is typically heavily congested. At 8 am no one is travelling at a good speed there. It is jockeying for position with drivers fighting for inches. Her and another vehicle, neither with more than two occupants in the car, fighting for position in the HOV lanes does not surprise. I don’t expect the HOV rules are followed so well. But moving along at “a good speed” _on SR-55 during morning rush_, slowed down by a car cutting in front of you and then quickly passing them on the left by just changing lanes? Sure! She did not deserve to be shot at. Her child certainly did NOT deserve to die. The shooter should be caught and punished. Maybe they can plead down to murder third degree and claim that they shot at the trunk to scare and with no knowledge of a child in the back seat or that the bullet would go through. But they deserve to be found and punished to the fullest degree of the law, whatever that turns out to be. And even your imagined passing an unknown on the right and giving them the finger _is problematic driving_, acting out on anger, to me. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/99 "2021-05-23T18:35:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > In her rear view mirror? Okay, you’re officially the biggest fuckwit on these boards right now. People have pointed you to reports that describe exactly what happened. You insist on creating your own fantasy version. You couldn’t even resist the temptation to engage in defense lawyering for the killer. If you were sarcastic to your kid, and they turned around and stabbed you 50 times with a steak knife, your dying thoughts would be, “Me and my smart mouth!” ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686/100 "2021-05-23T19:07:22Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > She deserves exactly the same amount of blame as a rape victim does for wearing a low cut shirt walking home on a poorly lit street. None. Absolutely fucking zero. The only person in this situation who comes out of this thread looking worse than you is the fucking shooter. So it is your position, then, that the man in question would have fired his gun **without** the provocation from the woman. I would like to know what grounds you have for believing that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-want-to-offer-a-contrarian-take-on-this-story-blame-the-woman-mom/942686.md?page=6)