Heh. I was kinda irked in this case. I had a boss who thought Michigan’s water law was like Wisconsin’s, a neighbor who assured me that the surveyor told him it was ok to put his crap all over my boss’s beach, and a 67-page opinion that really didn’t discuss the limits of the public trust doctrine. It’s a miracle we didn’t wind up in court.
Here, I’ll recap the discussion for you:
G: Dude, you’ve left a bunch of your stuff on my boss’s beach.
D: The surveyor said your boss’s property only extends to the high water mark. Cites some Illinois regulation that doesn’t even say what he claims it does.
G: The surveyor didn’t go to law school. The cases say you can walk on the beach–they don’t say you can leave a bunch of crap on it. The cases also say the beach is his property, there are simply some limitations on the normally absolute right to exclude others.
D: Oh. . . Ok.
Sadly, this discussion involved the exchange of several letters and my boss “helping” along the way.
I’ll trade ya.
I used to drive through Northwest Ohio just about every weekend. It still ain’t that far.
Thanks for clearing that up Q the M, I guess I don’t know the laws here as well as I thought.
I know that inland you can walk anywhere that there is enough water to float a canoe, even if that water is only there during spring floods. I just assumed it applied to the Lake Michigan shoreline too. Oops!
By the way, if the usage on the upper Lakes is the same as on Lake Ontario, the referents are “the high water mark” and “the low water mark” rather than the “tidal” comments made and refuted previously. (Courtesy of a boss nitpicky about his rights regarding waterfront property and New York State Department of Environmental Conservation regulations.)
Unless things have changed, you will have to detour around the the Great Lakes Naval Training Center in North Chicago. I remember a large brick and razor wire topped chain link fence at the northern border of the base and warning signs about entering U.S. Navy property. The fence extended at least 50 feet into the water. The base also has a small harbor type area on the lake made up of a couple of jetties. I doubt the Navy would let you stroll by using the shoreline, even if it meant wading in the water.
I can only speak for Wisconsin shore, but Qadgop is right. (After you pass his house, wave for my webcam – it’s about 50 miles north!)
The question of “who owns the beach” comes up often around here. I have consulted with legal eagles and the DNR (State Dept. of Natural Resources) and they say that my private property boundary goes up to a surveyed line, usually the “ordinary high water mark” (OHWM). If the lake recedes, my property does not get bigger, but my control of it extends to the water’s edge (riparian rights). If the lake rises, my property does not get smaller, even tho it is partly under water, but my control of the land is reduced as it extends only to the water’s edge.
Thus the “wet foot rule”, which says you are on non-private property as long as your foot is in the water. I’ve heard that the Great Lakes are “federal” property, although the state lines extend out into the water on maps.
In a more practical sense, anyone walking by my house along the shore is a friend, and welcome to enjoy it, as I might on their beach. If you wave, I might offer you a beer.
FYI, most of the shoreline in Wisconsin is privately owned, but you are unlikely to be challenged. You might have a difficult time negotiating parts of it where there are cliffs or rocks, so carry a pocket boat.
You might have some problems around the Two Rivers Nuclear Power Plant. Rumor is they are pretty jumpy about potential terrorists.
Just in case anyone asks, tidal influences are unmeasurable on the Great Lakes.
Lake Geneva in Wisconsin has a path that cuts across properties closely paralleling the shoreline all around the lake. There are no “no trespassing” signs, and some landowners even mantain the path. People frequently walk along this path. The circumference of the lake is almost 30 miles. I was surprised to find out in this thread that there is no automatic shore access provided to the public in Wisconsin. Does Lake Geneva have a special law guaranteeing access along the shoreline? Someone told me once that the law guaranteed access, and that nouveau riche landowners in Lake Geneva were unhappy about it and wanted to change it.
Everyone keeps saying this. There’s no tidal influence on the Great Lakes, other than the same tidal influence that influences dry land (potential earthquake trigger). Tidal forces squeeze the Earth on the two lateral sides of the planet in relation to the moon. This is low tide because all of the water is squeezed away. Where does it go? It becomes the high tide about 90 degrees away on the planet. The Great Lakes don’t encompass enough of the planet to move, and they’re not directly connected to the oceans’ system. Water falls and locks in particular would stop the tidal flow, if it were capable of traversing fast enough up the St. Lawrence system.
Sorry, just a pet peeve having grown up on Lake Huron and hearing about the tides.
Yes you can only walk the Mackinac Bridge on Labor Day. This year, however, they are having a swim across the straits. It isn’t publicized yet but I’m sure it will happen this year. You can either swim the whole thing or be part of a relay swim boat to boat.
If it was like Lake Erie, you’d have a couple of spots with steep 80-foot cliffs and unswimmable waters.
I have a family friend with a deck that hangs out over the lake. He’s a nice guy, but I’m not sure he’d like a complete stranger on his patio.
If I have to carry it, it will be a deflated purple dolphin pool toy.
But, since this is my pipe dream, my kayak will be carried by my advance crew which will scout ahead for suitable luncheon spots, deliver picnic hampers to the beach if none are located, negotiate with Navy and Power Plant officials and set up and make camp in the UP. Friendly riparian landowners will be waved at and refreshments will be shared.
Musicat: I look at and love your linked webcam every time I see one of your posts. Is it yours or a public/community thing?
I really love the lake. That would be my reason for wanting to do this.
Thanks for the comment. The webcam is mine, just stuck in a window. My community is still adjusting to the idea that the Internet even exists, so webcams are unusual and foreign to most!
I need to get a better one and upgrade, so if anyone has some recommendations, I’m all ears. I’m looking for a quality image and a zoom lens for starters (so I can zoom in on the beach bunnies walking by on their Michigan Circle Tours ). One controllable by the public to pan & zoom is a possibility if the cost could be kept down.
Not sure if it’s legal for people to fence off their private beaches. You might run into a bit of that even if you are allowed to walk along the shore.
). One controllable by the public to pan & zoom is a possibility if the cost could be kept down.