Good points Gary.
Just so people know, there are no intercoms on NYC trains. Maybe on a few of the new ones, but even those will be broken soon enough.
Thanks. Now if it was really desperate, I’d probably try to stun them into unconsciousness with a slow downloading, hard to navigate Flash website.
[sub]sorry, couldn’t resist[/sub]
Couldn’t agree more.
There’s a reason fuckwads like this travel in packs of 10, and it’s not because they’re best friends. Large groups can overwhelm an individual, negating any advantage of skill or strength that he might have.
The only thing that might work is to go “Bernard Goetz” on their asses, but i don’t recommend that either. First, you don’t want to have to live with yourself for killing someone, and second, they could well have guns also.
That’s scary shit. It makes me glad I live here in Indy. Of course, we have our share of crime, but I don’t have to hassle with trains and such.
Some of the advice is good, but I think the best advice is to try and ignore the situation as much as possible. It doesn’t stop anything from happening, but I would think it’s better than provoking the guys further. The times I’ve been verbally harassed, that’s the approach I take. Reacting to them only seems to encourage the behavior.
Where’s Bernie Goetz when you need him?
Buy a knife…a big one 
You should be able to fend off an isle of a subway car with one (considering how narrow they are) and wait until the next station.
jlzania
You shouldn’t get the idea that this happens all the time. It doesn’t. I’ve lived in NYC for about 8 years now and the times I’ve felt threatened I could count on one hand. I also ride the exact same subway line that we are talking about here.
I don’t Zebra but I appreciate the clarification.
I realize that, in the scenario that Ms Fisk described no one on her car was actually really hurt-just degraded and humiliated.
I’m just wondering where the line gets drawn, that’s all.
If I’m in the city on a subway and a group of punks start yelling faggot at some one, do I say anything?
If they escalate to pushing the same gentlemen, is that when I attempt to intervene?
Or do I wait until they’re beating his head in?
Headphones work for the mildly annoying folks who want to chat or flirt while you just want to ride in peace. But they are NOT recommended for walking around, as i learned the hard way:
One early morning (7 am - broad daylight) in DC I was walking to the nearest Metro Station (Woodley Park/Zoo) in a fairly safe neighborhood - (or so I thought, I had only just moved there). Headphones on, tape playing. Thus, I did not hear the mugger approach me from behind, I merely felt his arm go around my chest and the pistol in my back. Luckily he let me go unharmed and I only lost my rings, earrings, and a nice wallet with $2.00 and my OH license. Bet he was kickin himself when he got back to his vermin lair. (He was probably as scared as I was, he didnt take my walkman, my NICE watch, or my necklace)
DCs Finest made me feel like a Supreme Idiot when I told them I was wearing headphones. They basically intimated/inferred/implied that it was my fault. How dare I enjoy MUSIC while walking through their otherwise SAFE streets?
Regardless, I stopped wearing them and decided a book works just as well for deterring most levels of unwanted attention.
Not if you throw in some gangsta rap and loudly sing along with it. Not to many people will approach you when you’re shouting about “cappin niggas with yo fo five”.
Don’t forget to walk with a limp.
Don’t forget to type with really bad grammar too.
Be very careful with pepper spray. My husband picked up a little key-chain sized one. We sprayed it OUTSIDE, just to see how potent it might be. It hung in the air for over an hour and made us both cough, be very uncomfortable, and have burning eyes. If you use it on someone else, you have to be able to get away fast or you’ll succumb to it as well.
My mom and dad were on a date in the late 40s, early 50s. Some kids ran up and grabbed my mom’s purse. My dad quickly grabbed one of the kids and held him over the edge of the platform. With all the bravado of a Chicago gangster, he told the other kids to “drop the purse or your buddy gets the third rail.” They ran (with the purse) and when my dad let the kid go, he kicked pops in the ballskis. Little fucker. My mom was relieved he was such a brave guy (this is totally not his style). But she was pissed because she wasn’t able to find another red purse that matched her shoes exactly. Heh.
Zebra, I think things like this happen more than you suspect. And it may have to do with each of our relative race, size, and gender (and nativity to the area). My roommate has seen the same thing happen (including someone getting slapped) on the same line. I bet it has happened on other trains as well. I might see more and be the object of more harassment because I am a petite, white-looking, young female.
And I am well-trained in self-defense, but not against 10 people, and not in enclosed places where I have no where to run. I think carrying a knife would be very dangerous, unless I am extremely deft and highly trained with it. Otherwise it could easily be used against me. Maybe I should go get trained. Is carrying a concealed knife illegal here?
By the way, I found a transit police officer last night and reported the incident. He confirmed that there are no intercoms on my line. He said I did the right thing, though I could have gotten off at the next stop when I saw the hoodlums harassing people.
I might be afraid to change cars in the middle of a ride, though. What if they followed me onto the open space between the cars? It feels unsafe even without the additional danger.
true dat, World Eater.
That’s what I get for being on my “Swing Music” kick back then. Who knew it could be so dangerous?
Yes women feel threatened easier than men do in this sort of situation. (in very general terms)
How late do you ride home at night? And how late was it when this took place?
Just wondering.
On that particular night I rode home around 9pm. It had just gotten dark.
Very true, unrestricted hand to hand combat with any form of weapon is usually a short, brutal, and lethal encounter.
Ex security guy who has been in the middle of about 9 gang fights and 20-30 outnumbered confrontations that went ugly.
10 to one in a confined space is not really 10:1 you can probably find a spot where you only have to face 1 or 2 at a time just because of terrain restrictions.
The biggest problem when outnumbered is you have to strike to disable. The worst odds I ever faced was 10:3 most around age 14 and when we put the first three down the rest bolted. If they think they are going to get hurt, they won’t play. They are depending on their “minor status” to protect them from legal repercussions and think that guidelines like 3-1 against you in many states can be considered lethal force even if your 3 assailants are unarmed, do not apply to them.
Five 12 year olds can kill you pretty handily with bare hands and kicks once you’re down. If you put one down for the count hard and fast the rest will most likely back down.
This game gets more and more dangerous as they age. Later teens are far less likely to retreat, far more capable of doing damage, and far more likely to be armed.
I have no suggestions for you. I just wanted to back up your claim that “these things happen more than you might expect”.
There’s a lot of dumb teenagers in New York - A LOT. There’s also crazy people, perverted old men, perverted young men and some sick, SICK women.
This might be an unpopular stance, but I can think of only two ways of dealing with this stuff. You can realize that this is the way things areff your back or you can go completely wild on anyone who so much as looks at you. I say, don’t waste your energy.