# I was at a protest today. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 10, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886 "2014-12-10T20:58:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/1 "2014-12-10T20:58:41Z")
Today in Dublin there was a pretty [big protest](http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1210/665801-irish-water/) against the implementation of domestic water charges. There were 10,000s of people there from all corners of the country and a contingent from Detroit too. I found the whole day exciting and fulfilling. It was great chatting convivially with people from all walks of Irish life with whom I wouldn’t typically get to interact and some of the placards and banners were really funny. The novelty of being able to walk on typically car filled streets was also great. I have no idea if our protest today has done any good, whether it matters but I am very glad I participated and have had a feeling of elation since I got home. I saw some “No justice, no peace” placards as well as, predictably, some of those stupid Guy Fawkes masks. There was an insanely heavy police presence around our parliament (Dáil Éireann), at one point I was part of a crowd where I’d say there was one cop for every three of us protesters. There were also these pretty significant barriers raised to stop us marching on the parliament. Anyway, the very quintessence of mundane and pointless but I felt like sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/2 "2014-12-10T21:33:22Z")
Some readers may wonder why bills for water-and-sewer infrastructure are such an outrage… ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/3 "2014-12-10T21:51:08Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Some readers may wonder why bills for water-and-sewer infrastructure are such an outrage… Well we \*already \*pay for water through other taxation but also it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back, a new tax that disproportionately impacts upon the poor and low paid that is on top of half a decade and more of swingeing cuts and austerity. People have had enough. Also, it seems clear to many that the water charge system is being put in place in preparation for the Irish water supply to be privatised, something many find anathema. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/4 "2014-12-10T21:56:34Z")
So how does it work now? If Joe is a guy who lives in a tiny flat and only showers once a month, does he pay nothing? What about Fred who lives in a big house with two swimming pools and several water features… he doesn’t pay a separate bill for his water usage either? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/5 "2014-12-10T23:37:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So how does it work now? If Joe is a guy who lives in a tiny flat and only showers once a month, does he pay nothing? What about Fred who lives in a big house with two swimming pools and several water features… he doesn’t pay a separate bill for his water usage either? Lots of older cities in the US are this way too. Water meters are a fairly recent invention. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/6 "2014-12-11T01:05:58Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Well we \*already \*pay for water through other taxation but also it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back, a new tax that disproportionately impacts upon the poor and low paid that is on top of half a decade and more of **swingeing** cuts and austerity. I read a fair amount of British newspapers and media and I have to say, I’ve never noticed this word before. And I just saw it in another unrelated article about cuts to the Birmingham library in England. I don’t know how I’ve missed it for so long. (Do you really pronounce it SWIN-jing?) ETA: Just to pre-empt the inevitable, yes, I know Ireland is not British. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/7 "2014-12-11T04:26:04Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I read a fair amount of British newspapers and media and I have to say, I’ve never noticed this word before. And I just saw it in another unrelated article about cuts to the Birmingham library in England. I don’t know how I’ve missed it for so long. (Do you really pronounce it SWIN-jing?) > > ETA: Just to pre-empt the inevitable, yes, I know Ireland is not British. Yes we pronounce it that way. Thank you for you understanding that Ireland is not British. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/8 "2014-12-11T04:27:49Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So how does it work now? If Joe is a guy who lives in a tiny flat and only showers once a month, does he pay nothing? What about Fred who lives in a big house with two swimming pools and several water features… he doesn’t pay a separate bill for his water usage either? Right now the plan is to have a flat rate per adult and another per child. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/9 "2014-12-11T04:42:40Z")
Yeah, but how does it work under the current system? The flat rate thing would piss me off, since my “my ass is never home” situation means that my utility suppliers tend to apply “average rates” and need to eat them up any time I provide the actual metering. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/10 "2014-12-11T12:48:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Lots of older cities in the US are this way too. Water meters are a fairly recent invention. I had no idea. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/11 "2014-12-12T00:08:21Z")
Please tell more about “those stupid Guy Fawkes masks”, what role do they usually play? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/12 "2014-12-12T01:47:25Z")
> [@](#): > > and a contingent from Detroit too let me guess, white people? It’s a recent topic, but the Detroit area water/sewerage system has used usage-based billing for a long-ass time. People in Detroit are having their water shut off because they _aren’t paying the goddamn bill._ The city of Detroit has been so dysfunctional for so long that people could skate by without paying, then they acted surprised when the city ran out of money and called in their tabs. But you were at a protest, so “go you.” ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/13 "2014-12-12T09:48:59Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Please tell more about “those stupid Guy Fawkes masks”, what role do they usually play? > **[Guy Fawkes mask](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_mask)** > > The Guy Fawkes mask (also known as the V for Vendetta mask or Anonymous mask) is a stylised depiction of Guy Fawkes (the best-known member of the Gunpowder Plot, an attempt to blow up the House of Lords in London on 5 November 1605) created by illustrator David Lloyd for the 1982–1989 graphic novel V for Vendetta written by Alan Moore with art by Lloyd. Derived from the masks used to represent Fawkes being burned on an effigy having long previously had roots as part of Guy Fawkes Night celebrat... ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/14 "2014-12-12T09:50:51Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > But you were at a protest, so “go you.” What’s this supposed to mean? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/15 "2014-12-12T09:56:20Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > let me guess, white people? > **[Meet the Detroit Water Brigade Team](http://detroitwaterbrigade.org/team/)** > > Meet The Team DeMeeko Williams, Political Director – Detroit, MI DeMeeko Williams is a born-and-raised Detroiter from the North End neighborhood. A child of Woodward Avenue, Meeko worked at various places within the city of Detroit before committing... ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/16 "2014-12-13T07:46:31Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > What’s this supposed to mean? I think it’s an ironic cheer for your self-perceived heroism. Please note, I’m offering a translation, not expressing my own opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/17 "2014-12-13T13:51:05Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > [Meet the Detroit Water Brigade Team](http://detroitwaterbrigade.org/team/) Let me guess … Americans? ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/18 "2014-12-14T14:46:50Z")
**Your Great Darsh Face** , I’m not sure if the usage of “go you” was meant to be ironic or just a phrase along the lines of “attaboy”. **An Gadaí** , “go you” is equivalent to “iontach” or “maith thú”. ---
**Author:** ![Hrududu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Hrududu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hrududu)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/19 "2014-12-15T22:42:47Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Yeah, but how does it work under the current system? Its one of the things covered by our taxes. The interesting thing to me about the water charge protests is that out of all the extra things we’ve been asked to pay for this one is the least objectionable. At least to me. The universal social charge and the property tax are way worse. The property tax in particular galls me. You get taxed on your pay. You save what you can for a deposit. You’re taxed on the interest you make on these savings. You buy a house and pay stamp duty. And then every year you have to pay an extra tax just for owning your property? Its not as if you get anything from this, like refuse collection or anything. I think the water charge is probably the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people. It will be interesting to see how things turn out. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886/20 "2014-12-15T23:50:17Z")
> [@Hrududu](#): > > The interesting thing to me about the water charge protests is that out of all the extra things we’ve been asked to pay for this one is the least objectionable. At least to me. The universal social charge and the property tax are way worse. The property tax in particular galls me. You get taxed on your pay. You save what you can for a deposit. You’re taxed on the interest you make on these savings. You buy a house and pay stamp duty. And then every year you have to pay an extra tax just for owning your property? Its not as if you get anything from this, like refuse collection or anything. Annual property taxes are a more progressive thing than they may seem - they’re one of the main factors that prevent the formation of a hereditary elite landowning class - as in Scotland, where a handful of families own over half of the country by stubbornly clinging to vast landholdings they may have acquired centuries ago. Property taxes are also a great way to fund schools and other public projects (and there’s no reason it couldn’t be used for trash collection) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-at-a-protest-today/706886.md?page=2)