# I was not very impressed with Godfather 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 21, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873 "2011-07-21T17:05:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873/41 "2011-07-23T00:33:35Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Didn’t it have something to do with her vagina being too tight and needing surgery or something? The opposite. Men other than Sonny were “throwing a hotdog down a hallway”. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873/42 "2011-07-23T01:51:15Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Didn’t it have something to do with her vagina being too tight and needing surgery or something? Nah, Lucy Mancini had a vagina that was too _big_. Only Sonny could, er, “fill her up” and make her feel pleasure. This was rectified in Las Vegas by the abortionist, Jules. The wedding scene was the first time they hooked up, and apparently everybody was in on it, though Lucy thought they were being discreet. To quote Sonny’s wife: “When I found out he was sticking it to other women, I went to church and lit a candle.” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873/43 "2011-07-24T18:37:40Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Nah, Lucy Mancini had a vagina that was too _big_. Only Sonny could, er, “fill her up” and make her feel pleasure. This was rectified in Las Vegas by the abortionist, Jules. That whole plotline was as natural as if Melville had added a chapter on an Illinois barroom brawl to _Moby Dick_. Just really stuck out as “WTF?”. I’ve even wondered if Mrs. Puzo may have had this problem and this was his way of doing a “help is available” PSA. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873/44 "2011-07-25T14:25:40Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > That whole plotline was as natural as if Melville had added a chapter on an Illinois barroom brawl to _Moby Dick_. Just really stuck out as “WTF?”. I’ve even wondered if Mrs. Puzo may have had this problem and this was his way of doing a “help is available” PSA. It was very anatomically specific, wasn’t it? As if he was quoting an NEJM article describing the surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873/45 "2011-07-25T16:27:09Z")
GFI is perfect, I love every minute of it. I remember watching it the first time and thinking the wedding would never end and wishing that Michael would _stop wandering around Italy already._ Now I truly appreciate the pacing. Multiple viewings of GFII have failed to endear it to me. There are flashes of brilliance, Kay telling Michael about the abortion and all of Fredo’s scenes after Cuba. It’s worth watching but I don’t understand the fan fervor. One thing that drives me nuts about all the GF movies, wtf is with the unannounced timeline? Why not toss up dates or “2 years later” cards, anything really. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873/46 "2011-07-25T18:15:20Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > You didn’t watch the movie very carefully. Fredo clearly states that he is smart. [From Godfather the Musical, for those who haven’t seen it.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeJj9k851R0) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873/47 "2011-07-25T19:31:52Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > [From Godfather the Musical, for those who haven’t seen it.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeJj9k851R0) 😉 LOL, thanks for the link. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873/48 "2011-07-26T13:40:38Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > You are mistaking _The Godfather_ as a realistic portrayal of Mafia life. In fact, while that is somewhat true of the novel it is derived from, the film is actually a Greek tragedy wrapped in the trappings of a Sicilian Mafia film. Michael is supposed to be noble and doing all the wrong things for the right reasons (such as assassinating the Turk and the police captain to prevent a coalition of families against the Corleones in the coming war), so that he can be the central figure in an inescapable tragedy. I agree that it is essentially a greek tragedy, set in a stylised world. The people in it are in no way like the real mafia, and Puzo has said the same thing, it is a story about mafia mythos. I disagree about differences between the book and the movie though. The book is mostly exactly the same as the movie, the major difference being a large and completely superfluous subplot about a girl with a large vagina. Reading the book made me very impressed by the job Coppola did in interpreting it. The flow is perfect, and he catches all the small unspoken thoughts and tactics going on under the surface very elegantly. > [@](#): > > Michael is not an evil man (though he is a Machiavellian one) but he does some very evil things in order to protect, and yet ultimately lose, his family…which ironically is the one thing that his father tells him can make him a “real man”. The strength of _Part II_ is the ironic tragedy; that by trying to be legitimate, Michael weakens himself and loses everything, lowering to the point of murdering his brother for being weak. _Part II_ is one of the few sequels that essentially follows the same general plot as the original film but improves upon it. I agree exactly that the sequel is the same general plot. Michael is tragically drawn into the world, in order to protect his family, but instead ultimately loses it. This loss in the first movie is subtle, and an example of a perfect scene capture by Coppola that I talked about in the previous paragraph. In the book it is described that Michaels wife at first believes him that he didn’t kill anyone, but then a moment later when he is closing the door, and she observes the behavoir of the other people in the room, she realised that she was lying. Which is exactly what is communicated in the movie, without any words. I have seen the first Godfather movie numerous times, and in my opinion it is perfect. The plot is like a clockwork, no element is unnecessary, and everything fits together. (For instance, when Don Corleone scolds Sonny for speaking up at the meeting, his motives aren’t immediately clear. But later you realise how important this action was, as the drug sellers sense the disunity and attempt to assassinate Don Corleone.) The mythic mafia world they inhabit is fascinating, the plot is tight and flowing, the ending is action-packed and the tragedy is tied with The Wire for best modern version. In my opinion the second movie tries to copy the first in every aspect, and falls somewhat short in all of them. The mythic world with De Niro is not as interesting, the tragedy is slightly overplayed and the plot is not as dense with underlying tactics and intentions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873/49 "2011-07-26T13:47:28Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > For instance, when Don Corleone scolds Sonny for speaking up at the meeting, his motives aren’t immediately clear. But later you realise how important this action was, as the drug sellers sense the disunity and attempt to assassinate Don Corleone. I’d seen the movie once, and a friend of mine mentioned that said bit was the most important scene in the movie. I didn’t believe him, watched it again, and – cue the lightbulb. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873/50 "2011-07-26T14:16:02Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > I didn’t think Fredo knew he was gonna be killed. He is dumb I’m pretty sure he knows he isn’t coming back from the fishing trip. He decides to die with dignity. > [@Stoid](#): > > Do any of the book readers remember the subplot of the woman who, in the film, Sonny was fucking up against a door? > > I don’t know why that stuck with me all these years. Maybe because when I read it at age 12 it was very exotic to me… > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Didn’t it have something to do with her vagina being too tight and needing surgery or something? Too big, not too small. > [@Sampiro](#): > > That whole plotline was as natural as if Melville had added a chapter on an Illinois barroom brawl to _Moby Dick_. Just really stuck out as “WTF?”. I’ve even wondered if Mrs. Puzo may have had this problem and this was his way of doing a “help is available” PSA. > [@mr.jp](#): > > The book is mostly exactly the same as the movie, the major difference being a large and completely superfluous subplot about a girl with a large vagina. Yeah, this is the part of the book that’s most vivid in my memory – I read it only once as a kid. It’s so freaking weird and out of place. And although I found its frank discussion of sexuality fascinating, I didn’t find it at all sexy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-not-very-impressed-with-godfather-2/589873.md?page=2)