# I was plagiarized, sort of **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 14, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609 "2010-11-14T01:29:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/1 "2010-11-14T01:29:35Z")
This is weird and I’m not sure what to make of it. Awhile ago, I put up a web page that talked about [my grandfather’s friendship with Albert Einstein](http://www.sff.net/people/rothman/einstein.htm). It still gets a lot of hits, and sometimes people contact me with questions about it. The other day, I got an e-mail asking about a new opera called “Rothman’s Violin,” and if there was any connection. I had no idea – i’d never heard of it before – so I did a search. And up came an excerpt from [an 8th Grade textbook](http://books.google.com/books?id=Vfr6vkWgcwgC&lpg=PA228&ots=0vEypXpCRb&dq=%22rothman's%20violin%22&pg=PA181#v=onepage&q&f=true). They took the story, changed it considerably (this happened before I was born, yet I was put into it) and used it for a testing exercise. It’s not really stolen – it’s a retelling of an actual event – but it’s odd to see. My grandfather would have hated it, since he disliked anyone getting anything about the story wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Suil\_Dubh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/2 "2010-11-14T01:54:19Z")
That’s a pretty strange situation indeed. If I were you I don’t know if I’d be angry or honored. I tried a Google search for “opera rothman’s violin” but the only relevant link was this thread. I did however find this link, which also mentions your grandfather’s relationship to Einstein: [http://astro1.panet.utoledo.edu/~ljc/Ein\_violin.pdf](http://astro1.panet.utoledo.edu/~ljc/Ein_violin.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/3 "2010-11-14T03:04:52Z")
That was an 8th grade textbook? It has a misspelled word. ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/4 "2010-11-14T03:12:49Z")
There is also a word left out of the text. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/5 "2010-11-14T04:01:04Z")
I’d contact Random House about this. They’ve apparently copyrighted it, and they didn’t even give you credit, right? Yeah, it’s true, more or less, but that doesn’t mean that the author can just lift your story. If nothing else, you need to establish YOUR rights to the story, since you published it first. ---
**Author:** ![AmunRa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AmunRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmunRa)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/6 "2010-11-14T05:39:48Z")
But it’s on the internet, so it’s public domain. Right? ;)😛 ---
**Author:** ![HellsBreezeway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b4bc9f/32.png) [@HellsBreezeway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HellsBreezeway)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/7 "2010-11-14T05:41:14Z")
Beyond any editing errors, the quality of the writing in the adapted story is inexcusable. It’s actually pretty remarkable how they took a good piece and made it terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/8 "2010-11-14T06:55:58Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’d contact Random House about this. I agree that you should contact them about this. Also, I hope that you’ll return to this thread (or create a new one) with a follow-up. ---
**Author:** ![ErinPuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@ErinPuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ErinPuff)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/9 "2010-11-14T12:50:45Z")
Well, at least they didn’t use the story about Britten…! ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/10 "2010-11-14T14:19:16Z")
If they are not using your words, this is not plagiarism, you are simply a source (it appears that there are two sources here, your web site and the textbook author’s imagination). In an academic publication, it would have been a bad breach of etiquette not to cite your page as a source, and arguably it is bad form anyway, but I doubt that any very clear conventions are established for passages written to be used in exercises in 8th Grade textbooks. (Especially when the source is a web page: conventions for citing web pages are still not firmly established even in academic work.) In this case, there seems to be enough in the textbook version that the author has simply made up, that they might even claim that it is a work of fiction “inspired” by the story on your site. That said, if someone is actually basing an opera on this story (did they get the story direct from your site, or from the textbook?), it might be worth contacting them. You might get some acknowledgment from them. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/11 "2010-11-14T14:29:49Z")
This leads me to ask a general question… Most blogs today have some copyright notification in its footer or somewhere on the main page to protect the content. “Use of this site constitutes acceptance of its User Agreement and Privacy Policy.” is from [101 Cookbooks (with links to a pretty extensive fair use policy).](http://www.101cookbooks.com/useragreement.html) Does the fact that there is no such copyright on the OPs page make it more open to theft? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/12 "2010-11-14T14:37:03Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’d contact Random House about this. They’ve apparently copyrighted it, and they didn’t even give you credit, right? Yeah, it’s true, more or less, but that doesn’t mean that the author can just lift your story. > > If nothing else, you need to establish YOUR rights to the story, since you published it first. And they will explain how lucky you are that [they haven’t billed you for improving the story](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13102988&postcount=1). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/13 "2010-11-14T14:55:02Z")
> [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > This leads me to ask a general question… > > Most blogs today have some copyright notification in its footer or somewhere on the main page to protect the content. > > “Use of this site constitutes acceptance of its User Agreement and Privacy Policy.” is from [101 Cookbooks (with links to a pretty extensive fair use policy).](http://www.101cookbooks.com/useragreement.html) > > Does the fact that there is no such copyright on the OPs page make it more open to theft? No. In US law, copyright is assumed. I did not register the copyright, but you can put up the notice whether the copyright is registered or not. Also this isn’t a theft of my work – it’s been rewritten considerably. It could be deemed a derivative work, only the stories have appeared elsewhere, too, when my grandfather was alive (e.g., in interviews). I don’t own the facts. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/14 "2010-11-14T18:12:50Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > If they are not using your words, this is not plagiarism, you are simply a source (it appears that there are two sources here, your web site and the textbook author’s imagination). In an academic publication, it would have been a bad breach of etiquette not to cite your page as a source, and arguably it is bad form anyway, but I doubt that any very clear conventions are established for passages written to be used in exercises in 8th Grade textbooks. (Especially when the source is a web page: conventions for citing web pages are still not firmly established even in academic work.) In this case, there seems to be enough in the textbook version that the author has simply made up, that they might even claim that it is a work of fiction “inspired” by the story on your site. Well, [Walter Isaacson](http://www.amazon.com/Einstein-Life-Universe-Walter-Isaacson/dp/0743264746/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289758274&sr=8-1) managed to do it. (Chapter 21, footnote 2 – search inside the book for “Rothman”). ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-plagiarized-sort-of/560609/15 "2010-11-15T15:35:18Z")
> [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > This leads me to ask a general question… > > Most blogs today have some copyright notification in its footer or somewhere on the main page to protect the content. > > “Use of this site constitutes acceptance of its User Agreement and Privacy Policy.” is from [101 Cookbooks (with links to a pretty extensive fair use policy).](http://www.101cookbooks.com/useragreement.html) > > Does the fact that there is no such copyright on the OPs page make it more open to theft? To elaborate on what **RealityChuck** said earlier: an author holds the copyright to a creative work as soon as that work is “fixed”. “Fixed” means recorded or otherwise set down in a way such that it can be observed or reproduced. The term includes writing on a page, sculpting a block of clay, scribbling down a musical score, recording a football game, or whatever. As soon as a work is “fixed”, the author holds the copyright, and no notice or registration is required. Registration and notice are helpful, however, if you have to go to court in the future.