# I was wrong about Miyazaki **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 22, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034 "2010-02-22T21:55:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/61 "2010-02-24T17:00:11Z")
> [@vdgg81](#): > > _Porco Rosso_ is also one of my favorites and didn’t seem very “Japanese” to me. It is very, very weird, however, for other reasons. It’s about an airplane pilot that gets magically transformed into an anthropomorphic pig and there very definitely is a love story in this one. Porco Rosso was my favorite, actually, but I’m an enormous fan of Japan’s view of 1920’s Italy. Gorgeous. > [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](#): > > Speaking of light-hearted, The Castle of Cagliostro is probably his most “normal” story. It’s almost a James Bond-type storyline. I enjoyed it, but it’s nothing like most of his films. And yes, it’s on DVD - I found it on DVD at the Corvallis library. I had never even heard of it before I saw it on the shelf. A nice surprise, indeed. Out of curiosity - Corvallis, Oregon? Just 'cause I’m from there. ---
**Author:** ![twopiecesofeight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5e9695/32.png) [@twopiecesofeight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twopiecesofeight)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/62 "2010-02-24T17:19:54Z")
> [@runcible\_spoon](#): > > Porco Rosso was my favorite, actually, but I’m an enormous fan of Japan’s view of 1920’s Italy. Gorgeous. Porco Rosso is at the top of my list, too. I know many who have put PR at the bottom of their list, simply because it’s different than your typical Miyazaki works. But, if I recall, Miyazaki created PR solely for people who desire escapism from the daily grind (“salary-men whose brains have turned to mush” or something like that). Call me romantic, but I like seeing pilots trying to be chivalrous (for various values of “chivalry”). It’s fun to see the smart, young woman who designs planes carry a spitfire attitude, too. 🙂 Besides, it’s the only film, animated or otherwise, where the pilot is a pig, literally.\* \*I can use that word here, no? And apparently, he became that way because he was disgusted with human nature. Unrealistic, but it’s nice to pretend that pilots of all stripes only wanted to play in the skies and not get involved in the ugly political dramas of war. ---
**Author:** ![3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/47e85d/32.png) [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3_20_59_or_bust)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/63 "2010-02-24T17:40:33Z")
> [@runcible\_spoon](#): > > Porco Rosso was my favorite, actually, but I’m an enormous fan of Japan’s view of 1920’s Italy. Gorgeous. > > Out of curiosity - Corvallis, Oregon? Just 'cause I’m from there. Yes indeed, Corvallis, Oregon. A city with a library so proud that they actually use the web address: [thebestlibrary.net](http://thebestlibrary.net). And it is pretty good…they have all the Miyazaki dvd’s, I know that from experience. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/64 "2010-02-24T17:42:01Z")
[http://www.terrania.us/journal/2004/08/lupin-iii-castle-of-cagliostro.html](http://www.terrania.us/journal/2004/08/lupin-iii-castle-of-cagliostro.html) You might like this commentary on Cagliostro. It’s pretty good, actually. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/65 "2010-02-24T17:58:21Z")
My personal favorite Miyazaki is _Porco Rosso_, followed by _Spirited Away_. I almost always prefer subtitles to dubbing, even in animation, because I simply like hearing the flow and tone of the original language. Dubbing and subtitling can both have rotten translation (and it was a bit of a revelation to have my Japanese wife explain how the story was tweaked in translation). But both are generally fantastic in the Lasseter-era editions. But all things being equal I want to hear the Japanese, even though I can’t understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/66 "2010-02-24T18:32:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Me too. In fact, there’ve been in times when after a long stretch of reading subtitles, some character will say something in English (without subtitles) and I won’t understand the English. It can be embarrassing to ask someone what was said and they respond quizzically “Uh, that was English”. The funniest example I’ve ever seen was a Quebecois film that was originally in French, and which I was watching in English subtitles. At one point, the main characters are in a hospital, and the doctors all speak English, so the female lead was addressing them in English, but there were French subtitles in the original film for its French audience. Except the actress’s accent was so atrocious, that I still found it easier to read the subs than to listen to her, even though it was six years since my eighth-grade French classes. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/67 "2010-02-24T18:43:06Z")
Another odd example of subtitling is in [Tokyo Godfathers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Godfathers) (a non-Miyazaki anime movie that I thoroughly recommend). It has a scene where one character speaks in Spanish – apparently she only speaks Spanish – and another (named Miyuki) replies to her in very bad English – she’s Japanese, presumably learned English at school, and assumes that any foreigner speaks English. The scene in unsubtitled for the original Japanese audience, and also unsubtitled in English. (And the movie is not available in a dubbed version: how on earth would you dub that scene?) ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/68 "2010-02-24T21:50:42Z")
_Howl’s Moving Castle_ never gets the love it deserves in Miyazaki threads. You must read the book first. Yes, it’s YA fantasy, but it’s a really fun read. I have read it at least 30 times. Miyazaki does divert from the plot on a few key areas, but it’s almost essential to read the book to really understand the relationships between the witch, the mother, the sisters, and the prince. The movie can seem VERY strange if you don’t read the book before watching, and you will walk away wondering what the hell you just saw (although it was very pretty!). I also prefer listening to the original actors and reading the subtitles, mostly because I read far faster than I listen and can taken in a couple sentences in a glance. The original actors seem a lot more talented than the English speaking ones. So if you go for the English version you may be missing out on tone – and the subtitles are more informative than the dubbed voices, in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/69 "2010-02-24T23:44:04Z")
> [@Elysian](#): > > You must read the book first. Yes, it’s YA fantasy, but it’s a really fun read. I have read it at least 30 times. Miyazaki does divert from the plot on a few key areas, but it’s almost essential to read the book to really understand the relationships between the witch, the mother, the sisters, and the prince. The movie can seem VERY strange if you don’t read the book before watching, and you will walk away wondering what the hell you just saw (although it was very pretty!). I wondered if that was the case as there definitely was a lot of stuff going on in that film and it didn’t quite appear to have the requisite amount of stuff to tie it together either. Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll now go and read the book. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/70 "2010-02-24T23:50:45Z")
The only thing that threw me off a little bit in HMC was the nature of the pact between Howl and Calcifer, and a quick look at Wikipedia cleared that up for me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/71 "2010-02-24T23:55:20Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Fact is that American voice actors as rule just don’t have the training, experience, and respect that the profession gets in Japan, and that means that you either end up with “real” actors who don’t really know how to do voice work, or ‘has been/never been’ actors who do voice work because it’s better than not working. There are a lot of very good American voice actors, but they often don’t get tapped for starring roles in animated movies because the producers want a famous name to have top billing. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/72 "2010-02-25T00:02:29Z")
IMO… _Mononoke_ was Hayazaki’s great adult-age film, _Spirited Away_ was his great adolescent film, _Totoro_ was his great juvenile film. These are truly amazing films. _Nausicaa_ was a decent sci-fi/fantasy job, but not great. Everything else was either infantile, rambling, unfocused, weird, or had some unexplained incongrous cat-man in it. The only reason we know about them is because of the halo effect of his good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/73 "2010-02-25T00:44:20Z")
I didn’t read the original _Howl’s Moving Castle_ but I understood (or at least I thought I understood!) the plot/relationships. These elements might differ in the book, but I thought the film was nicely self-contained and I loved it; I think it’s my favorite, or perhaps tied with _Spirited Away_. They’re both very touching and just so lovely to look at. I think what I appreciate the most in these films is the importance Miyazaki places on compassion and kindness toward others. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/74 "2010-02-25T05:22:07Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > There are a lot of very good American voice actors, but they often don’t get tapped for starring roles in animated movies because the producers want a famous name to have top billing. What exactly are they working on then? because all the dubbing I see is either big name actors who aren’t very good, or non-named actors who suck. I suppose there’s also Mark Hammil, who is neither, but I’m not as impressed with him as a lot of people are. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/75 "2010-02-25T05:37:15Z")
Isn’t it more down to directing (and maybe editing) than acting? Pixar and Dreamworks have had quite a few prominent (though not totally A-list) actors combined with people I’ve never heard of. They all seem to put in solid performances. (It’s very hard to believe that often each of the actor is alone in a booth when recording, and not actually interacting with one another. I imagine even Lawrence Olivier could come off as flat if you just pushed a script into his hands and said “here, read this” without any direction. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/76 "2010-02-25T06:24:47Z")
> [@GameHat](#): > > I can certainly appreciate why people love the work. It just hasn’t clicked for me. Is there a film in his canon that I should try, given I didn’t care too much for Monoke or Ponyo? …I don’t know. I think _Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind_ is pretty cool, but I like that sort of trippy world-building stuff, like Jean “Moebius” Giraud & _Metal Hurlant._ I actually prefer the manga version of _Nausicaä_, which is long & novelistic & even weirder. In that fantastic vein, but less Green-mythic, you might like _Howl’s Moving Castle_. Both of these have good English dubs. I won’t say great, but good. I guess you have to get into the right frame of mind to enjoy them? > [@Shakester](#): > > Subtitles in animated movies? That is completely ridiculous. They’re _all_ dubbed. That’s how they get sound tracks onto animated films: they dub them. Watching an animated film in a language you don’t understand and using subtitles is beyond pretentious, it’s just ridiculous. > > They’re animations. They’re _all_ dubbed by voice actors, whatever language they were written in. You cannot possibly get more out of a film that’s primarily _visual_ by reading the subtitles and listening to voice actors talk in a language you don’t understand. It’s not “more authentic”, it’s distracting from the imagery which is the whole point of the film. > > In a live action film with human beings in it, the actors voice is part of the performance, and subtitles are sensible. Animations are not real people. The Japanese voice track is no more “authentic” than the English voice track. Wow, I disagree. The original voice actors are directed as part of the original production. They’re performers. The dubbers are directed by someone else. They’re translators. **To be clear, I think the dubs of Ghibli stuff have been really good since the present bunch took over (the Disney releases). For someone just getting into Miyazaki & anime, yes, get the dubs.** But considering what sometimes happens to soundtrack & sound effects in a less expert dub, I do tend to watch subs when watching something on video by myself & can rewind. (Like a certain TV series wherein the English dubbers consistently rearranged the vowels in the French main character’s name.) But I enjoy the audio aspect. Some people will be thrown by voices in a foreign language & should get the dub. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/77 "2010-02-25T06:40:16Z")
Oh, and since a relative named her black cat Jiji after the cat in _Kiki’s Delivery Service_, I feel like I should say something about it. I don’t know, it’s a cute small film, & you might like it as it’s completely different from _Mononoke_. And iirc Phil Hartman voiced Jiji in the dub. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/78 "2010-02-25T07:07:03Z")
> [@twopiecesofeight](#): > > Please let us know how it went. _Whisper of the Heart_ is one of my favorite Studio Ghibli productions, if not one of my favorite anime in general. > > Disclaimer: I like movies that promote reading library books. 🙂 Ok, I’ve got good news and bad news for you . . . I didn’t really like it. That being said, I loved the way it looked, and I found all the characters very likable. The story just didn’t have anything for me. I can’t say they did a single thing wrong at all. It just wasn’t for me. So far, I’d order the ones I’ve seen like this (all Ghibli, not just Miyazaki): 1. Spirited Away 2. Howl’s Moving Castle 3. Castle of Cagliostro 4. Princess Mononoke 5. Castle in the Sky 6. Whisper of the Heart 7. Grave of the Fireflies –. Nausicaa (DNF. I fell asleep. Not in a bad way, I was just exhausted.) Very much looking forward to: -My Neighbor Totoro -Pom Poko -Porco Rosso -Ponyo ---
**Author:** ![twopiecesofeight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5e9695/32.png) [@twopiecesofeight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twopiecesofeight)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/79 "2010-02-25T08:24:13Z")
**Cisco** , thanks for the honest impression of _Whisper of the Heart_. Glad you at least enjoyed the look of the film. My favorite scene is when the girl is following the cat off the train up the hill. The amount of detail the artists put into the look of the neighborhood is astounding. By the way, you may also want to put _Kiki’s Delivery Service_ on your list, too. Europe looks so charming and inviting in it. And it puts the main character, a young witch going through her coming-of-age journey, in a good light. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034/80 "2010-02-25T09:09:22Z")
My thoughts on the sub versus dub debate. In principle I am not against dubs for animated films but in practice I have yet to hear an English language anime dub equal to the original so I will stick to subs. The recent Ghibli dubs done by Pixar have been pretty decent but still not as good as the originals. Part of the problem is that the US studios tend to prefer big names who may not take the work very seriously. Or they may ham it up and completely change the character from the original. Phil Hartman’s turn as the cat in Kiki’s Delivery Service is a particularly egregious example. ``` Anyway I am a big fan of Miyazaki though I have yet to see his latest. I think Princess Mononoke is his towering masterpiece followed by Spirited Away. ``` [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-about-miyazaki/530034.md?page=5)