# I was wrong and you were right. \[Trump-related\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824 "2017-02-02T15:54:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/181 "2017-02-28T14:06:28Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > In the last few days…Trump… > …Did the Muslim Ban thing. I’m curious. Why is restricting immigration from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libya and Yemen suddenly being referred to as a “Muslim ban”? When Obama did exactly the same thing as part of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, there wasn’t a squeak raised from the liberals. Why weren’t you guys screaming about a Muslim ban back then? For that matter, Obama actually performed a immigrant ban six other times during his administration, and several of them were “Muslim bans”. Clinton implemented six bans, Bush 43 also had six, and we can go back to Reagan if you like, who had four. Why was there no manufactured outrage over any of those bans like there is over Trump’s single action? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/182 "2017-02-28T14:12:30Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’m curious. Why is restricting immigration from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libya and Yemen suddenly being referred to as a “Muslim ban”? When Obama did exactly the same thing as part of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, there wasn’t a squeak raised from the liberals. Why weren’t you guys screaming about a Muslim ban back then? > > For that matter, Obama actually performed a immigrant ban six other times during his administration, and several of them were “Muslim bans”. Clinton implemented six bans, Bush 43 also had six, and we can go back to Reagan if you like, who had four. > Why was there no manufactured outrage over any of those bans like there is over Trump’s single action? Probably because Trump himself called it a Muslim ban, multiple times, and because he said he would do so during his campaign, and because Giuliani said that this specific policy was put into place after Trump asked him and others to try to come up with a legal way of implementing a Muslim ban. And Obama didn’t do “the exact same thing”. Welcome back, by the way. I look forward to further interactions! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/183 "2017-02-28T14:39:59Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’m curious. … referred to as a “Muslim ban”? Hello **Mr. Hump**. Are you aware that Muhammad Ali Jr. and his mother were detained for two hours and questioned when they returned to the U.S. a few days ago? Mr. Ali was born in the U.S.A. The interrogation centered on Mr. Ali’s religion. Would you condescend to comment on that? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/184 "2017-02-28T15:19:04Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Would you condescend to comment on that? Are you a betting man? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/185 "2017-02-28T20:34:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Hello **Mr. Hump**. Are you aware that Muhammad Ali Jr. and his mother were detained for two hours and questioned when they returned to the U.S. a few days ago? Mr. Ali was born in the U.S.A. The interrogation centered on Mr. Ali’s religion. > > Would you condescend to comment on that? No, I was not aware of that. But what, if anything, does that have to do with the question I asked? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/186 "2017-03-01T17:16:37Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Why was there no manufactured outrage over any of those bans like there is over Trump’s single action? I’ll go out on a limb and say it was probably because Obama did not, in fact, implement a Muslim travel ban similar to Trump’s. The Trump admin’s attempts to claim otherwise got a “three Pinocchios” rating from the Washington Post fact checker. ([https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011/?utm\_term=.1e77fe0c7279](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011/?utm_term=.1e77fe0c7279)) I’ve just noticed that the WaPo did its debunking back on Jan. 29. I’m now wondering if **clothy** is going to bring up _every_ right wing talking point that got floated and discredited during his 30-day absence. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/187 "2017-03-01T18:06:00Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > I’ll go out on a limb and say it was probably because Obama did not, in fact, implement a Muslim travel ban similar to Trump’s. The Trump admin’s attempts to claim otherwise got a “three Pinocchios” rating from the Washington Post fact checker. ([https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011/?utm\_term=.1e77fe0c7279](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011/?utm_term=.1e77fe0c7279)) Here’s the thing: Lies aren’t intended to fool the intelligent. They’re intended to fool the stupid. And the evidence from our local idiot is that they’re working. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/188 "2017-03-01T18:52:44Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > I’ll go out on a limb and say it was probably because Obama did not, in fact, implement a Muslim travel ban similar to Trump’s. The Trump admin’s attempts to claim otherwise got a “three Pinocchios” rating from the Washington Post fact checker. ([https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011/?utm\_term=.1e77fe0c7279](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011/?utm_term=.1e77fe0c7279)) > > I’ve just noticed that the WaPo did its debunking back on Jan. 29. I’m now wondering if **clothy** is going to bring up _every_ right wing talking point that got floated and discredited during his 30-day absence. Nope. I just bring up reality. I realize that twists knots in the collective liberal undies around here, but the sad fact is that, as I pointed out, Obama implemented a similar (similar, not exactly equal) ban and the liberals were as quiet as church mice about it. The countries, in both cases, were first identified in the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, expanded in February 2016. Why was it okay when Obama cracked the whip on those countries, and not when Trump is the one cracking the whip? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/189 "2017-03-01T19:08:03Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Nope. I just bring up reality. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/190 "2017-03-01T19:24:27Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No, I was not aware of that. But what, if anything, does that have to do with the question I asked? _You_ argued against the term “Muslim ban.” Do you dispute that the questions asked Mr. Ali did not focus on whether he was born in one of the banned countries (he was born in Philadelphia, PA and his detainers never questioned that) but rather on his religion? It is interesting that you missed the story altogether. I didn’t dredge it up at Pinko\_Fake\_News\_Is\_Us.kp, but saw it on the Google Home Page, IIRC. Are you one of those for whom, if it’s not reported on FoxNews or the Washington Times, it didn’t happen? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/191 "2017-03-01T19:49:33Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Obama implemented a similar (similar, not exactly equal) ban [:dubious:](https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/01/21/united-states-begins-implementation-changes-visa-waiver-program) > [@](#): > > \*ndividuals will still be able to apply for a visa using the regular immigration process at our embassies or consulates. For those who need a U.S. visa for urgent business, medical, or humanitarian travel to the United States, U.S. embassies and consulates stand ready to process applications on an expedited basis. > > Beginning January 21, 2016, travelers who currently have valid Electronic System for Travel Authorizations (ESTAs) and who have previously indicated holding dual nationality with one of the four countries listed above on their ESTA applications will have their current ESTAs revoked. > > Under the new law, the Secretary of Homeland Security may waive these restrictions if he determines that such a waiver is in the law enforcement or national security interests of the United States. Such waivers will be granted only on a case-by-case basis. As a general matter, categories of travelers who may be eligible for a waiver include: > > [ul][li]Individuals who traveled to Iran, Iraq, Sudan or Syria on behalf of international organizations, regional organizations, and sub-national governments on official duty;[/li][li]Individuals who traveled to Iran, Iraq, Sudan or Syria on behalf of a humanitarian NGO on official duty;[/li][li]Individuals who traveled to Iran, Iraq, Sudan or Syria as a journalist for reporting purposes;[/li][li]Individuals who traveled to Iran for legitimate business-related purposes following the conclusion of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (July 14, 2015); and[/li][li]Individuals who have traveled to Iraq for legitimate business-related purposes.[/ul][/li]Again, whether ESTA applicants will receive a waiver will be determined on a case-by-case basis, consistent with the terms of the law. In addition, we will continue to explore whether and how the waivers can be used for dual nationals of Iraq, Syria, Iran and Sudan. > > Any traveler who receives notification that they are no longer eligible to travel under the VWP are still eligible to travel to the United States with a valid nonimmigrant visa issued by a U.S. embassy or consulate. Such travelers will be required to appear for an interview and obtain a visa in their passports at a U.S. embassy or consulate before traveling to the United States. > > The new law does not ban travel to the United States, or admission into the United States, and the great majority of VWP travelers will not be affected by the legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/192 "2017-03-01T20:38:13Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Sure I do. It’s the world that I live in, where people like me have to endure the stupid decisions made by liberals in government, which are a direct result of the stupid decisions made by liberals who elected them there. It is most assuredly NOT the liberal utopian dream world populated by unicorns that fart rainbows. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/193 "2017-03-01T20:42:39Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > _You_ argued against the term “Muslim ban.” Do you dispute that the questions asked Mr. Ali did not focus on whether he was born in one of the banned countries (he was born in Philadelphia, PA and his detainers never questioned that) but rather on his religion? You picked one isolated incident and tried to make it be the answer to the question I asked. It has no bearing on the question I asked. > [@](#): > > It is interesting that you missed the story altogether. I didn’t dredge it up at Pinko\_Fake\_News\_Is\_Us.kp, but saw it on the Google Home Page, IIRC. Are you one of those for whom, if it’s not reported on FoxNews or the Washington Times, it didn’t happen? You are quite aware that is not the case. But nice job of getting some snark in on me. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/194 "2017-03-01T20:49:33Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Sure I do. It’s the world that I live in, where people like me have to endure the stupid decisions made by liberals in government, which are a direct result of the stupid decisions made by liberals who elected them there. It is most assuredly NOT the liberal utopian dream world populated by unicorns that fart rainbows. Your “reality” is nothing more than an auto-response, gain-saying, despite the fact that actual facts … you know, real reality … were thrown in your face. You didn’t even address what you were gain-saying against (beyond repeating your already rebutted claims). You just went right for the ol’ trope … those darn Liberals who have been running your life all these years. But, you know, nice job of getting some snark in. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/195 "2017-03-01T20:57:11Z")
I directly answered **Clothy’s** question about why it’s referred to as a Muslim ban, with no response. Par for the course, I suppose. But at least anyone else wondering about the answer now has one. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/196 "2017-03-01T21:02:21Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Obama implemented a similar (similar, not exactly equal) ban [Wrong.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011) Luckily for you, Pinocchios are a renewable resource, so you get three of your very own just like Donald did! We don’t do user avatars, but I’m sure you could get your name changed to **Clotha “TriPinocchio” Hump** if you ask nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/197 "2017-03-01T21:20:41Z")
Dial in. You’re about to get an earful about how stupid liberals are. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/198 "2017-03-01T21:56:04Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > You picked one isolated incident and tried to make it be the answer to the question I asked. It has no bearing on the question I asked. > You are quite aware that is not the case. But nice job of getting some snark in on me. American citizens are detained upon return from holiday and questioned by immigration officials working for Trump for 2 hours _ **about their religion** _. This certainly seems relevant to me. Were such interrogations common in the pre-Trump era? I am certainly _not_ aware of where you get your news. Some think disparate news sources is one reason that right-wingers have a view of the news different from that of centrists. If this is false, I hope you disabuse us of that notion. Where _do_ you get your news? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/199 "2017-03-01T22:20:33Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Here’s the thing: Lies aren’t intended to fool the intelligent. They’re intended to fool the stupid. And the evidence from our local idiot is that they’re working. Well, there was also the chance to see if **clothy** ’s involuntary sabbatical had any effect on him. Turns out, he’s still a follower of the “Proven wrong? Just double or triple down. That’ll work!” school of thought. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/200 "2017-03-02T00:10:17Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I can’t believe all the guff **Idle Thoughts** gets in this thread… Hear hear. In any other thread there would back pats and "good on you"s but given its the pit and given it’s a mod cue the pile-on. FWIW, for support him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824.md?page=11)