# I was wrong and you were right. \[Trump-related\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824 "2017-02-02T15:54:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/141 "2017-02-06T23:40:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ahh – a mind reader. The Dope has a lot of those, I’ve noticed. Your powers extend to millions, apparently – quite a skill. “No Charles! Get out of my mind!” - Magneto ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/142 "2017-02-06T23:41:38Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > 'Tis not my permission ya need . . . 'course Frost being dead 'prolly means he won’t mind either! > > CMC fnord! He was cut down at Bowling Green. In the prime of life, he was. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/143 "2017-02-06T23:48:22Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Who should the people of Hiroshima have feared more, local gangs with brickbats, or > Harry Truman? > > The government is simply a more successful gang with better PR. Well, historically, violent death was more prevalent before the rise of governments. So, the actual answer is with Truman and Tojo. I’m sure your gut tells you otherwise, but the facts aren’t on your side. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/144 "2017-02-07T02:53:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And the wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. Now, now, when capitalism kills off all the unprofitable people, the average wealth of those still living WILL probably go up. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/145 "2017-02-07T02:58:05Z")
I would like to share with you a quote from the late, great Elihu Root (who served as Secretary of State under Theodore Roosevelt, among many important posts): "There are many abuses of party power and in party management in the United States; but the American who stands apart and criticises or condemns the conduct of political parties may well be answered, “Yours was the responsibility and you have wholly failed to discharge it.” From “[The Citizen’s Part in Government](https://archive.org/details/citizensparting01rootgoog),” which may be found in its entirety on Google’s [archive.org](http://archive.org). I feel Root’s sting keenly, and will volunteer my time and money to limit the damage. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/146 "2017-02-07T05:48:27Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Or, maybe starting a thread with a title like “I Was Wrong and You Were Right?” The non voter could explain that they had made a mistake, why it was a mistake and then pledge to do better and the adults could get the fuck on with their lives. Yeah, I’m the problem here for “not getting on with my life.” I guess I’ll do that just as soon as **Idle Thoughts** and his nonvoting mates pledge to make up the difference in Social Security benefits I may receive as a result of Trump and Co. reducing or eliminating them. Because it is _their fault_. Will they actually _do_ something to correct the harm they have caused, or will it be more nothing and no effect, like so many warts on so many toads’ rear ends? Adults who are worse off than I am, ones who will be truly screwed by the loss of Social Security (and Medicare, and Obamacare), why don’t they get the fuck on with their lives? Oh yeah, because some of them are going to fucking croak, and it is _their fault_. Are they going to go on tour to all the cemeteries and apologize to the tombstones one by one? Here is what **Idle Thoughts** said in the OP: > [@](#): > > I will register to vote and start voting and I will definitely be voting four years from now… that is, if we’re still all alive in four years. Or if we still have the right to vote. I wish I had done it before, in this election. I’m sorry I didn’t. > I was definitely in the wrong and wanted you all to know I admit it and feel bad and sorry over it. Does he feel as bad as all the people who are going to fucking croak because of his inaction? Is he going to do anything more than “feel bad”? Don’t you think nonvoters owe us all just a little bit more than that? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/147 "2017-02-07T06:16:43Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Yeah, I’m the problem here for “not getting on with my life.” I guess I’ll do that just as soon as **Idle Thoughts** and his nonvoting mates pledge to make up the difference in Social Security benefits I may receive as a result of Trump and Co. reducing or eliminating them. Because it is _their fault_. Will they actually _do_ something to correct the harm they have caused, or will it be more nothing and no effect, like so many warts on so many toads’ rear ends? > > Adults who are worse off than I am, ones who will be truly screwed by the loss of Social Security (and Medicare, and Obamacare), why don’t they get the fuck on with their lives? Oh yeah, because some of them are going to fucking croak, and it is _their fault_. Are they going to go on tour to all the cemeteries and apologize to the tombstones one by one? Here is what **Idle Thoughts** said in the OP: > > Does he feel as bad as all the people who are going to fucking croak because of his inaction? Is he going to do anything more than “feel bad”? Don’t you think nonvoters owe us all just a little bit more than that? Cut the melodrama. You aren’t owed anything. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/148 "2017-02-07T06:23:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You aren’t owed anything. Wrong. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/149 "2017-02-07T06:34:38Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Wrong. Alright then. What are you owed? Someone still has an old socket wrench of yours? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/150 "2017-02-07T06:51:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Alright then. What are you owed? Someone still has an old socket wrench of yours? Civic duty. It was not voluntarily discharged, but therefore I am afraid there are ways to wring it out of them. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/151 "2017-02-07T08:09:20Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Yeah, I’m the problem here for “not getting on with my life.” I guess I’ll do that just as soon as **Idle Thoughts** and his nonvoting mates pledge to make up the difference in Social Security benefits I may receive as a result of Trump and Co. reducing or eliminating them. Because it is _their fault_. Will they actually _do_ something to correct the harm they have caused, or will it be more nothing and no effect, like so many warts on so many toads’ rear ends? > > Adults who are worse off than I am, ones who will be truly screwed by the loss of Social Security (and Medicare, and Obamacare), why don’t they get the fuck on with their lives? Oh yeah, because some of them are going to fucking croak, and it is _their fault_. Are they going to go on tour to all the cemeteries and apologize to the tombstones one by one? Here is what **Idle Thoughts** said in the OP: > > Does he feel as bad as all the people who are going to fucking croak because of his inaction? Is he going to do anything more than “feel bad”? Don’t you think nonvoters owe us all just a little bit more than that? The last election doesn’t matter. The next election matters. We can bicker and shit on the Trump voters and the non voters, or we can try to peel off some of them and try to move forward. No one is saying they weren’t part of the last problem, but now we need to fix the current problem. Your way doesn’t result in any change in the status quo: we still have the Democrat winning the popular vote, we still have the Republicans winning the electoral college and we still have 70 million voters staying home. What is the point of that, how does it make your life or the lives of anyone else better? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/152 "2017-02-07T15:12:07Z")
It really would make people’s lives better if nonvoters made up the difference in people’s lost benefits. Not that nonvoters have the requisite sense of responsibility to follow through on that- they are ultimately responsible for the Trump administration, and it feels to me like some of them are trying to escape that responsibility by disavowing their nonvoting. But \*that \*is unrealistic- we all have to live with it for years. We have similar goals when it comes to elections- I think democrats are better than republicans, though there has gotta be something better than either. Whatever. In those terms we could simply look at it as if we are in different departments- you are with the Secretary of Carrots while I am under the aegis of the Director of Sticks. But I want more out of them than a vote. They have harmed me, the country and the world by their laziness, irresponsibility, lack of curiosity, credulity and ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/153 "2017-02-07T15:14:32Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > But I want more out of them than a vote. They have harmed me, the country and the world by their laziness, irresponsibility, lack of curiosity, credulity and ignorance. How about public stonings when they have the gall to admit they were mistaken and want to improve themselves? It’s certainly more important to punish them than to recruit them in an effort to make positive change, right? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/154 "2017-02-08T15:06:49Z")
Stonings are excessive- what, have you been reading the OT or something? But if you are going to be all big picture about this, let’s not forget all the people in the future who are on the fence about voting and need a reason to do it. Making an example of nonvoters could be that reason. Compare it to the crack epidemic in the 80s. Crackheads were portrayed as the lowest scum around, and today crack is not nearly the problem it used to be- a lot of people decided they did not want to be that guy. Look at nonvoters like crackheads- irresponsible jerks who make the world a worse place. The big difference is that I was never personally screwed over by a crackhead. Nonvoters have caused far, far more harm than all the crackheads put together, assuming Trump and Co install the kind of warmongering plutocracy it looks like we are going to get, judging by the new Cabinet and Trumpy’s behavior. And I, personally, am going to get burned as a result. Nonvoters fucked up BIG TIME. There really is no excuse for it. I have no faith in your namby-pambyism. To the bottom caste with them! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/155 "2017-02-08T15:32:56Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Stonings are excessive- what, have you been reading the OT or something? But if you are going to be all big picture about this, let’s not forget all the people in the future who are on the fence about voting and need a reason to do it. Making an example of nonvoters could be that reason. True, but making an example of non-voters who have admitted their mistake, and have pledged to not make that mistake again kinda hurts your cause. Keep the animosity towards those who still support trump. Keep the condescension towards those who still feel that voting makes no difference. Support those on your side, even if they are new arrivals. To do elsewise ensures that people do not join your side. Now, as your side happens to be on the same side of the ideological line as I am, I am concerned about you pushing people away from either of us. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/156 "2017-02-09T15:14:42Z")
If you don’t mind stepping back a bit, this argument seems to echo the election in general. You are looking at the whole thing through a partisan-strategy lens. What effect will this or that statement have on prospective Dem voters in the future? Will it make them mad, sad or glad? Me, I am not looking at it that way. It isn’t just Dem nonvoters I am upset with, it is all of them. If somebody thinks Trump or Stein is really the best candidate for the country, that is who they should vote for. But if somebody can look at all these candidates and decide, “Meh, I can’t make any distinction between them, and it just doesn’t matter anyway, so forget the whole thing,” well, that person is being an irresponsible idiot. The tension is partisan v non-partisan. The partisans want to muzzle people with various messages in order to keep things unoffensive. I guess this is where complaints about “PC” come in- people sacrificing candor for partisan strategy. That lost, and that isn’t good for the country right now IMHO. What difference does it make if nonvoters are sorry or not? Only half of eligible voters voted- it looks like we got a result based on a minority opinion, which is not what the system is supposed to produce. And whose fault is that? Nonvoters, all the way. This “sorry makes it better” attitude is going to be poison going forward. Did you know that many Native American languages don’t have a word for “sorry” at all? Because it doesn’t _do_ anything. Likewise, “sorry” isn’t going to be worth jack shit in a Trump administration. If he nukes somebody, there is no going back later and saying, “sorry about that. It was a mistake.” Gut Social Security such that people start living on cat food or just dying and there is no sorry. And so on. See what I mean? Therefore, nonvoters: you suck. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/157 "2017-02-09T15:47:44Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Therefore, nonvoters: you suck. Which is like saying “You’ve made a mistake and there’s nothing you can do to redeem yourself.” It’s a useless and unproductive sentiment, much like not voting. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/158 "2017-02-09T16:01:11Z")
Yeah, your just disincentivizing voting. You are taking actions that actively undermine your desired outcome, that’s the definition of immaturity. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/159 "2017-02-09T16:04:30Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > It really would make people’s lives better if nonvoters made up the difference in people’s lost benefits. Yeah, because it would make the world such a better place if people go into the voting booth and make random choices rather than not vote at all. :headdesk: ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824/160 "2017-02-09T16:08:06Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > If you don’t mind stepping back a bit, this argument seems to echo the election in general. > > You are looking at the whole thing through a partisan-strategy lens. What effect will this or that statement have on prospective Dem voters in the future? Will it make them mad, sad or glad? > > Me, I am not looking at it that way. It isn’t just Dem nonvoters I am upset with, it is all of them. If somebody thinks Trump or Stein is really the best candidate for the country, that is who they should vote for. But if somebody can look at all these candidates and decide, “Meh, I can’t make any distinction between them, and it just doesn’t matter anyway, so forget the whole thing,” well, that person is being an irresponsible idiot. > > The tension is partisan v non-partisan. The partisans want to muzzle people with various messages in order to keep things unoffensive. I guess this is where complaints about “PC” come in- people sacrificing candor for partisan strategy. > > That lost, and that isn’t good for the country right now IMHO. What difference does it make if nonvoters are sorry or not? Only half of eligible voters voted- it looks like we got a result based on a minority opinion, which is not what the system is supposed to produce. And whose fault is that? Nonvoters, all the way. > > This “sorry makes it better” attitude is going to be poison going forward. Did you know that many Native American languages don’t have a word for “sorry” at all? Because it doesn’t _do_ anything. > > Likewise, “sorry” isn’t going to be worth jack shit in a Trump administration. If he nukes somebody, there is no going back later and saying, “sorry about that. It was a mistake.” Gut Social Security such that people start living on cat food or just dying and there is no sorry. And so on. See what I mean? > > Therefore, nonvoters: you suck. We can either try to convince the non-voters and fence sitters to come out in 2018 and 2020 to fix the problems, (And hopefully encourage them to go and vote in their local elections too) or we can convince them that no matter what they do, they are scum, and will never be forgiven. Is there no penance, no form of self flagellation that will allow you to recognize those who made a mistake as human beings? Just from a pragmatic point of view, which do you think is more likely to get the dems control within our generation? There are still plenty of people out there who are still proud of not having voted for hillary. Direct your ire at them, not those who have recognized the error of their ways. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-and-you-were-right-trump-related/778824.md?page=9)