# I Was Wrong- There's a BIG Downside to Letting Tim Tebow start **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 13, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840 "2011-11-13T22:35:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/481 "2011-12-27T16:36:34Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > 14-40, 1 TD 4 INTs. Looks like those predicting a regression on the interceptions were right. > > Raiders won too, so hope is kindled for them. But since Denver will hold the key tiebreaker (record against common teams) if they are tied in the standings, Oakland has to win, Denver has to lose. What if Denver loses and the Chargers beat the Raiders? That will be a 3-way tie. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/482 "2011-12-27T16:43:10Z")
Am I remembering correctly that Kurt Warner is also a big churchie who used to thank god for everything from a completed pass to a successful wiping of his ass? Have not heard him praise god for a while now. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/483 "2011-12-27T16:44:13Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I have never seen him point skyward in recognition of the Lord after throwing an interception or fumbling. . Good things on the field are gods work. Bad things on the field are mans work. Anyway, the idea of TT in the pro-bowl is laughable yet it was brought up on the NFL network this morning. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/484 "2011-12-27T16:47:37Z")
Head to head, division, common games, conference are tie breakers. > **[NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League](https://www.nfl.com/standings/tie-breaking-procedures)** > > The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more. If Denver and Oakland both lose, Denver owns the tie breaker. [http://www.kansascity.com/2011/12/24/3337125/afc-west-tie-breakers.html](http://www.kansascity.com/2011/12/24/3337125/afc-west-tie-breakers.html) . ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/485 "2011-12-27T16:51:51Z")
Can someone who understands the technicalities of throwing motions please explain to me why every throw looks like he’s winding up to heave the ball fifty yards even if it’s a five yard pass? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/486 "2011-12-27T16:58:49Z")
Throw. Or throw not. There is no try. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/487 "2011-12-27T17:02:56Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Can someone who understands the technicalities of throwing motions please explain to me why every throw looks like he’s winding up to heave the ball fifty yards even if it’s a five yard pass? Because he’s a special physical talent, he was never taught the mechanics to make a pass in the NFL. There is no one way, but a vast majority of throwing motions are compact, meant to minimize the amount of time the ball stays in the QB hands after his decision to throw the ball. Tebow, however, from an early age was first, homeschooled, and then taught to look for one receiver, and if that guy is covered, to take off running. No coach wanted to spend the time to teach him how to make NFL throws, so he never learned. So, through high school and college, what he did (minimal reads with a huge windup motion if he decides to pass), worked. He was a special football player of great talent who found a lot of success in high school and college, and you don’t mess with success. And no one wanted to tinker with his mechanics. Then, he graduated. And there he was, a special talent with a horrible throwing motion that had become ingrained into his game. Between graduation and the draft, he worked with professionals to try and make his motion more “NFL ready”, and he had trouble doing it consistently. He will still revert to his old motion more often than not. So the Broncos changed their offense to fit his strengths, and quit worrying about his motion. And here we are. This offseason, he may go back to work on his motion, to make it more compact with a quicker release, but, for now, you don’t mess with success. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/488 "2011-12-27T17:16:14Z")
Thanks, Hamlet! It just looks like he gives defensive pass rushers an easy oppottunity to snatch the ball out of his throwing hand. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/489 "2011-12-27T17:29:46Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Thanks, Hamlet! It just looks like he gives defensive pass rushers an easy oppottunity to snatch the ball out of his throwing hand. That’s part of the issue, certainly. Most NFL QB’s need to make quick reads/throws because the pass rush in the NFL can comes very quick (much quicker than in college). If the D Lineman is close, that extra .5 second windup makes a big difference between having the ball swatted away on a fumble and a quick toss escaping pressure. But a long windup also gives defensive backs more time to see where he is throwing and adjust to the ball to make an interception. This isn’t an issue when he is doing what he does well (running around for 4 seconds giving his WR time to get separation when the play breaks down) and those times he can escape pressure from the rush, but it’s a huge problem if he has to make a quick read & throw while under pressure. This is compounded when the defense knows that Tebow has to throw. As we saw in the Patriots game, when the defense knows that the Broncos have to throw to keep up, the defense can take advantage of his long windup/delivery time. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/490 "2011-12-27T17:58:53Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > That’s part of the issue, certainly. Most NFL QB’s need to make quick reads/throws because the pass rush in the NFL can comes very quick (much quicker than in college). If the D Lineman is close, that extra .5 second windup makes a big difference between having the ball swatted away on a fumble and a quick toss escaping pressure. > > But a long windup also gives defensive backs more time to see where he is throwing and adjust to the ball to make an interception. This isn’t an issue when he is doing what he does well (running around for 4 seconds giving his WR time to get separation when the play breaks down) and those times he can escape pressure from the rush, but it’s a huge problem if he has to make a quick read & throw while under pressure. This is compounded when the defense knows that Tebow has to throw. As we saw in the Patriots game, when the defense knows that the Broncos have to throw to keep up, the defense can take advantage of his long windup/delivery time. His inconsistency and poor accuracy are a bigger issue. The bad delivery and bad mechanics are a primary cause of this issue and far outpaces the release time when it comes to flaws. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/491 "2011-12-27T18:09:01Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > He starts every interview by praising his “Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ” and ends every one with the salutation “God bless.” Every single one. Thanks for confirming! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/492 "2011-12-27T18:13:30Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > His inconsistency and poor accuracy are a bigger issue. The bad delivery and bad mechanics are a primary cause of this issue and far outpaces the release time when it comes to flaws. Laggard didn’t ask for a list of his flaws as a NFL Quarterback, he asked about his throwing motion. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/493 "2011-12-27T18:14:32Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Thanks for confirming! Don’t you mean: “Praise my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! Thanks for confirming.” ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/494 "2011-12-27T18:26:18Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Don’t you mean: “Praise my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! Thanks for confirming.” I think you mean “Praise my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! Thanks for confirming. God bless!” ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/495 "2011-12-27T18:31:50Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Anyway, the idea of TT in the pro-bowl is laughable yet it was brought up on the NFL network this morning. As weak as the AFC is with quarterbacks compared to the NFC, I can see Tebow getting the 3rd spot. Brady’s a lock. Roethlisberger is surely the 2nd qb. But then it’s down to Rivers. He hasn’t had his usual numbers this year, has he? His team certainly hasn’t performed as well as usual. Mark Sanchez is pretty overrated. Schaub probably would have gotten the 3rd spot if he were healthy. Beyond that, it’s slim pickings. Tebow at least draws viewers, and gives an element of the game that Rivers and Sanchez don’t. On preview, I suppose Andy Dalton is a worthy candidate, too. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/496 "2011-12-27T18:39:20Z")
Hasselbeck’s had a decent season. Better numbers than Tebow, at any rate, and against better competition. But not as big a draw and not as much notoriety. Might as well put Tebow into the Pro Bowl. It’s mostly a popularity contest, anyway. All-Pro, on the other hand? No way. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/497 "2011-12-27T19:21:25Z")
Hawaiians need Jesus, too. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/498 "2012-01-02T00:32:18Z")
6-22, 60 yards passing, 0 td’s, 1 int., and a fumble in the red zone. Not a good game for Tim. For me, however, it was nice. The Broncos defense played great, but they couldn’t overcome Tebow’s play and they lost, which gives me the victory in my bet with **treis**. So, **treis** , any desire to go double or nothing into the playoffs? Do you have any interest in trying a new longer term bet too? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/499 "2012-01-04T20:05:46Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > 6-22, 60 yards passing, 0 td’s, 1 int., and a fumble in the red zone. Not a good game for Tim. > > For me, however, it was nice. The Broncos defense played great, but they couldn’t overcome Tebow’s play and they lost, which gives me the victory in my bet with **treis**. > > So, **treis** , any desire to go double or nothing into the playoffs? Do you have any interest in trying a new longer term bet too? Not really. It was a dumb bet in the first place. Give me a paypal account and I will pay up. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/500 "2012-01-09T01:32:23Z")
Oh forgive me Tebow for I have sinned. I doubted your greatness and you graciously have performed another miracle. I shall say 10 hail Tebows as penance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840.md?page=26)