# I Was Wrong- There's a BIG Downside to Letting Tim Tebow start **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 13, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840 "2011-11-13T22:35:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/121 "2011-11-19T11:31:10Z")
I still say he’s the fullback/running back you need, especially with the Broncos. Their defense is better, they’ve got a quarterback who is 9/26 at best (I think). His last offensive drive was about 80 yards on him running the blessed football, it takes at least two to bring him down and let’s not forget that these first down/touchdown runs occur when he’s in shotgun (which is all the time). Give Teebie the ball on the scrimmage line and let him go. Hey, he likes to get tackled anyway! ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/122 "2011-11-19T14:22:12Z")
In the four-game Tebow era, another quarterback has quietly led a previously hopeless team to several victories. The dawning of this quarterback’s era has not received the same level of remark as Tebow’s own start. In four games, Tebow has won three and led his team to an average of 336 offensive yards per game (and an average of 20.8 points per game). In the same four-game stretch, QB2 has won two and led his team to an average of 292 offensive yards per game (and an average of 20.8 points per game). One of the two losses was, in fact, to Tebow, by three points in overtime. I leave as an exercise to the reader the question of what this comparison to Matt Moore of the Miami Dolphins says about Tebow. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/123 "2011-11-19T14:40:05Z")
(By the way, I left the Broncos win Thursday night out of my figuring, simply because the Dolphins haven’t played this week and comparing a straightforward four-game stretch between the two teams was simplest. If you sub in the Broncos 17-13 win over the Jets for the Broncos 18-15 win over the Dolphins, the numbers don’t change in a meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/124 "2011-11-19T16:14:23Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Anybody else feel like the goalpoasts are moving? There are some people who are predisposed to hate the guy, sure. There are others who think he walks on water. The goalposts aren’t moving, although you can tell there are some people who are frustrated Tebow keeps getting credit for wins and clutchiness even though it appears he is playing very badly (except for two fourth quarter drives) and the defense is locking people down. > [@](#): > > Tebow’s schtick may have worked in College, but he can’t make in the NFL. So he won’t get drafted. I never heard anyone say he’d go undrafted. And most people were respectful of the fact that he was very successful in college. The opinion that it wouldn’t work in the NFL was not confined to people who didn’t like him. > [@](#): > > And if he does, it’ll be in a late round. > > What a waste of a 1st round pick. Many people said he _shouldn’t_ be a high pick because of his limitations. Even people who liked him figure he would be a second or third round pick. The Broncos surprised a lot of people with that choice. > [@](#): > > He cannot lead an _NFL_ team to victory. Nobody said he would never win a single game. > [@](#): > > One victory, that’s a fluke. Same. > [@](#): > > Yeah, he’s rattled off a few 4th quarter comebacks to win, but those teams he beat sucked. I mean the Jets were Superbowl contenders the last two years, but they suck this year. Fourth quarter comebacks are great, but it’s a double-edged sword: if the game is close because your offense plays poorly, the “he led a fourth-quarter comeback” thing needs to be tempered by the fact that he did not play well before that. As far as the Jets go- this year they’re 5-5 and have been very inconsistent. The evidence says pretty clearly that the Broncos are playing a softer schedule at this point in the season. > [@](#): > > Plus the defense is starting to play better. It’s beyond dispute the defense is playing better. > [@](#): > > It’s an accident that their improved play coincides with Tebow starting, ya know… Do you think he’s making the defense play better? OK, the guy definitely has confidence and determination in spades and a good attitude, but it seems like he really can’t throw the ball with any kind of success, and his determination and clutchness wouldn’t help the team very much if not for the fact that the defense has gotten a bunch of key guys back lately and been one of the best units in the league lately- with a schedule of weaker teams. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/125 "2011-11-19T17:31:39Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > He could avoid a lot of the “Delay Of Game” penalties if he’d quit saying a full rosary in the huddle. 😃 As a fundamentalist protestant Christian, I don’t think that Tebow says the Rosary (a Catholic tradition). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/126 "2011-11-19T18:30:33Z")
We need a transporter accident. Give Tebow Dan Pastorini’s arm. And Stabler’s aim. And maybe Elway’s teeth, too. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/127 "2011-11-19T20:16:31Z")
Just to elaborate on what I said in post #124, I never saw anyone say Tim Tebow couldn’t possibly win a game in the NFL. I saw lots of people say that he could not be successful in the long term because isn’t good enough and can’t pass well enough. To this point in his career, Tebow’s record as a starter in 5-3. Not exactly worldbeating, but granted, the team is just not good. He’s completed 97 passes in 207 attempts (completion percentage of 46.9, worse this year than last), with 7 TDs and 4 INTs, 1,363 passing yards and 6.6 yards per attempt. He’s rushed for 615 yards in 99 attempts (6.2 yards/attempt) with 9 TDs and 5 fumbles. Granted he has a good attitude and leadership skills, but based on that level of performance, does this look like a guy who can be consistently successful in the NFL? The team will probably use this run-all-the-time offense for the rest of this year and I assume they will try their damnedest to get his passing up to snuff in the offseason while also looking at other options. You may not need a great QB if you have a great defense, but it’s hard to imagine how they would win consistently if they basically cannot pass at all. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/128 "2011-11-20T00:01:06Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > We need a transporter accident. Give Tebow Dan Pastorini’s arm. And Stabler’s aim. And maybe Elway’s teeth, too. Let’s keep those teeth in the can. Tebow: He HAS been interesting to watch, I’ll give you that. But the Jets had as much to do with Denver’s Thursday night win as Tebow. For instance, the last drive. The entire game, they played a 4-3, and at one time held Denver to 7 straight 3 and outs. The last drive, with the Broncos 95 yards away from the leading score, the Jets decided to change to a 3-4 defense. Why? IANADC\*, but it would seem to me that changing your defense for the last drive makes little sense, especially as your base defense has been so outstanding all night. The other think not to like about the change is that doing so presumes that Tebow is a quarterback that he simply isn’t… He’s not going to drive the ball down the throat of the defense, and yet he did exactly that, thanks to the Jets. I’m not drinking the Tebow kool-aid just yet. I will say one thing, though. The kid has put up with more BS than anyone should have to because of his religion, and his beliefs. Can you imagine for a moment if he were for example, a muslim, or a jew? The press would never stand for it, and the offending person or player would be admonished immediately. \*I am not a defensive coordinator ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/129 "2011-11-20T00:06:53Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I will say one thing, though. The kid has put up with more BS than anyone should have to because of his religion, and his beliefs. One of the main things I like about him is that he doesn’t seem bothered or upset by that kind of stuff. He doesn’t get all pissy or whiny about the whole “Tebowing” crap and the jokes about him praying, which gets him some kudos in my book. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/130 "2011-11-20T00:32:05Z")
John Elway Tim’s doing a great job leading our offense, coming through when we need him the most. He’s a winner who gets better every day. Like · · @johnelway on Twitter · 2 minutes ago via Twitter From Elway’s FaceBook page ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/131 "2011-11-20T01:39:06Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > they do get more yardage under Tebow, What are the numbers? > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > so it isn’t exactly cut and dried that he can’t move the ball. If you can move the ball similar yards and avoid turnovers that wreck your field position, thats not a bad tradeoff. > > If Tebow is nothing more than a crappy passer, you could slot Orton in there, let him throw 8 times a game and win. Tebow has running skills to offset his poor passing. Whether it’s enough remains to be seen, That’s the big question. Apparently it’s lead to more yards so far. Is it enough yards and can it be sustained? I wouldn’t bet on it. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/132 "2011-11-20T02:04:20Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > John Elway > Tim’s doing a great job leading our offense, coming through when we need him the most. He’s a winner who gets better every day. > Like · · @johnelway on Twitter · 2 minutes ago via Twitter > From Elway’s FaceBook page His face after Tebow scored the game winning touchdown said “not this shit again.” ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/133 "2011-11-20T02:17:36Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > What are the numbers? Orton: Wk 1: 310 Wk 2: 318 Wk 3: 231 Wk 4: 384 Total: 1243 Ave: 310.75 Both Playing Wk 5: 275 Wk 6: Bye Tebow Wk 7: 308 Wk 8: 312 Wk 9: 412 Wk 10: 313 Wk 11: 229 Total: 1574 Ave: 314.8 Those 4.14 yards per game are HUGE!!! If Denver returned every kickoff 96 yards, that would be a TD a game in favor of Tebow. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/134 "2011-11-20T02:35:37Z")
Does anyone have yards per drop back for Tebow? That is, throwing yards + scramble yards / drop backs. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/135 "2011-11-20T04:36:16Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Does anyone have yards per drop back for Tebow? That is, throwing yards + scramble yards / drop backs. That may a difficult one, because it may not be clear if a play is an intentional run (i.e., a quarterback draw) versus a forced scramble (on what was originally intended to be a pass play). The basic stats which the NFL publishes simply total all of his runs together, though I’m sure that there are stats services which analyze things in greater detail. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/136 "2011-11-21T19:00:36Z")
How about this for an explanation of Denver’s recent success: In 2006, Denver (in playoff position at 7-4) benched their pro bowl QB in favour of a prototypical QB who won basically nothing in college. This resulted in the team missing the playoffs, and cratering for a few years. In 2011, Denver (at 1-4) benched their QB in favour of a completely non-prototypical QB who won basically everything in college. This resulted in 4-1, and … So Denver’s success is not due to Tebow specifically, but rather due to their repaying of their karmic debt from benching Jake Plummer 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/137 "2011-11-22T01:03:32Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > In 2006, Denver (in playoff position at 7-4) benched their pro bowl QB in favour of a prototypical QB who won basically nothing in college. This resulted in the team missing the playoffs, and cratering for a few years. Who is this pro bowl QB of which you speak? Jay “Nothing is my fault!” Cutler? I’m no Tebow fan, but I’d take Tebow and his attitude before taking Cutler’s pouting, chinless face every day of the week. Cutler and Jeff George are the same guy. Million dollar arm and a 5 cent head. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/138 "2011-11-22T02:15:03Z")
> [@stink fish pot](#): > > i’m no tebow fan, but i’d take tebow and his attitude before taking cutler’s pouting, chinless face every day of the week. bwahahahahahaha! ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/139 "2011-11-22T07:32:01Z")
I like Jake Plummer’s take on him… “…I think that when he accepts the fact that we know that he loves Jesus Christ then I think I’ll like him a little better. I don’t hate him because of that, I just would rather not have to hear that every single time he takes a good snap or makes a good handoff…like you know, I understand, dude, where you’re coming from …” ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840/140 "2011-11-22T18:04:51Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > I like Jake Plummer’s take on him… “…I think that when he accepts the fact that we know that he loves Jesus Christ then I think I’ll like him a little better. I don’t hate him because of that, I just would rather not have to hear that every single time he takes a good snap or makes a good handoff…like you know, I understand, dude, where you’re coming from …” Not sure what broadcast Jake’s watchin’. I never hear about it. Unless he’s talking about the silent kneel and pray bit? That’s annoying? Is it more annoying than the self-congratulating displays of ‘I am so AAAAWWWSSSOOOMMMEEE’ from the guy who just sacked a QB or broke up a pass? Or the rehearsed dance in end zone after a touchdown? I don’t share Tebow’s religious views, but for some reason I appreciate his field demeanor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-was-wrong-theres-a-big-downside-to-letting-tim-tebow-start/602840.md?page=8)